Thread: Titebond doesn't like sun exposure much at all ?

I've noticed this too. I have a feeling it's more to do with timber movement due to moisture change in the timber as a result of sun exposure.

I don't know for certain. not sure. A small applied piece to a chair I made recently, has opened up a bit sitting on our veranda.

I've never had that problem with epoxy....and come to think of it I remember my boss murming one day to himself to ' use epoxy cause that side exposed to the sun' when we're working on a jam or whatever.

Bothers me cause I don't want to use epoxy on everything. Thought maybe theres a different version of titebond that didn't soften so much from heat and that I was using the wrong version.

Which of the titebond glues are you using?

don't know actually. Bought some from work. Never bothered to look. I'll check it out Monday.

Jake, I would NEVER use Titebond or any PVA glue on any joint that had to take the slightest stress. I used PVA glue on chair seats in the distant past, and many of them failed. In our climate it just can't help softening on a good hot day, so if there is any stress on the joint (e.g. after heavy clamping to close a joint with a bit too much gap, or some hefty rear-end bearing down on it) it's going to creep or simply let go.

You don't HAVE to use epoxy - I'm not that fond of the messy stuff, either. I use a fair bit of melamine glue for high-stress joints. It's a bit of a pain because it comes in fixed satchets, so you need accurate weighing & measuring equipment to break it down into smaller lots. It also has a VERY short open time, so no good at all for complicated glue-ups. Then there's good old hide glue, which is excellent for high stress joints - just don't get it wet .... I like the stuff, & use it a lot, maybe 'cos that's what I started life with, but a lot of you young bloods seem to avoid it. Then there's the various formaldehyde glues, which are also non-creep.

I reckon what you are describing is the wood drying quickly at the surface & pulling away from the joint, because the warmth also softens the glue. Wouldn't need to be in direct sun, just somewhere where there are quick temperature & humidity changes - just what you'd expect on a veranda.

Avagooday,

ta....but why do they call it 'tight' bond then. Not tight enough eh. Just seems to have a good rep.

At work we use it everywhere. All the doors we make use it. External ones. All applied strips.

The boss is gluing up 2 dozern chairs at the moment with the stuff. Does that mean they'll weaken if they see the morning sun, if you leave it near a window?

Just seems a bit pitiful uno. Bit pieved. My lovely chairs cracking up Ian !

Apricotripper,

At the risk of hijacking your thread, I've had some awful results with Titebond 111.

The first was with 2 small hall tables that had dominoed rails. When I sanded them (guess i should have done it before glue up) the glue gave way and when i leaned on the leg, the domino broke across its length. I reported that in a thread. Some people still don't believe it.

Next was when i was making the blanket box (recent thread) and i glued an inlay -going all the way through, the Titebond did not hold on the Rosewood and the Kauri Pine end grain.

I figure I may as well use PVA in most circumstances and epoxy when it counts.
(Guess there are 2000 Forum members who will say I'm doing something wrong with the Titebond.)

CP

I don't know Carry. Its hard to say. Can relate with your frustration though.

Maybe I've developed too much expectation for the stuff.

But titebond must be used everywhere. Just at my work we buy big 20L buckets of the stuff. Go through it regularly. We use them with solid doors that we wedge up. Can't imagine them coming apart too quickly from sun exposure because of the wedges.

But for table tops the boss insists on using epoxy, anything really where there's no mechanical strength he seems to lean towards it over titebond.

But how about all the furniture thats made nowdays joined with floating tenons like your table ? or like a chair. Bit too much sun exposure and some fat bugger sits on it. Can't see these chairs lasting very long.

I don't think I'm going to risk it. I'm just going to stick with epoxy I think. But that'll make repairs harder I spose.

Jake.
Pva is adequate for gluing up chairs, its preferable to epoxy for that job as its slightly elastic so the high stress joins can flex at the glueline whereas a rigid glue like epoxy may fracture. Though hide glue is preferable. Hide glue can be made water resistant if desired.

For laminating panels such as table tops and chair seats etc its better to use expoxy or another no creep glue such as hide glue.

Carry,

Not many glues bond to the endgrain. I teach students not to rely on glue on an endgrain joint. I've got no barrow to push on the titebond glue, so it's not a criticism, just a data point.

Cheers,

Andrew

Originally Posted by echnidna

Jake.
Pva is adequate for gluing up chairs, its preferable to epoxy for that job as its slightly elastic so the high stress joins can flex at the glueline whereas a rigid glue like epoxy may fracture. Though hide glue is preferable. Hide glue can be made water resistant if desired.

For laminating panels such as table tops and chair seats etc its better to use expoxy or another no creep glue such as hide glue.

so PVA is ok ! Well, I'm confused.

What if some bloke likes to read his paper sitting in the sun on a cold day. Maybe we should stick little warning signs under them. (don't leave chair in the sun) Poor bugger might end up with a sore bum

Do most furniture makers use hide glue over titebond ? Cause I was under the impression that everyone used titebond.

Just come in after using some Titebond II so I read the blurb on it. It claims to be ideal for outdoor furniture!
Jim

The strength of any glue when observing a broken joint is rather obvious. Did the wood break or did the glue itself fail?

IMHO, 99% of all published tests supposed to be testing glue strength are invalid. Almost all of the tests utilize a joint as the testing vehicle for the strength of the glue. Almost all glue strength tests fail to utilize clamping pressure.

Recently, I was using poplar to make a face frame using Kreg Pocket screws. At the rail/stile joint I used a bit of Titebond III and two Kreg screws. (This was a end grain to long grain joint.) About 45 minutes after making the joint, I discovered an error making it necessary to pull the joint apart. To my surprise, some of the long grain pulled off and was affixed to the end grain in the joint. (The Kreg screw, by design, is a clamping device.) Here the wood failed rather than the glue itself after only 45 minutes of curing and glue joints involving end grain are KNOWN for their lack of strength.

When making mortise and tenon joints, it is probably best to have very tight fitting tenons. Even if it is necessary to tap the joints together with a mallet.

G'day All. We use Titebond III for glue laminating 2x1 into 12x2.

We are having good results with the TB III on Rose Gum, Blackbutt and Grey Ironbark. They are for internal stairs. We are also doing 3x1 into 3x3 and 4x1 into 4x4. All using rose gum. The TBIII comes in 20 litre pails.
We are clamping on a Weldline rotary press. Rose Gum needs 750 psi on the clamps. GIBK and BBT needs 1000 psi.

Testing of the glue line is carried out by cutting a section of the 12x2, 50mm wide. then cut into each glue line 10mm with a band saw. Then use a brick bolster to cleave down the bandsaw cut to see how much wood fractures as opposed to glue failure. Anywhere from 30% wood failure is OK.