Thread: Trying hand-cut dovetails - dovetail saw western vs japanese?

Yeah Matt, I actually have one of them-there 'feather files', which I use for jobs other than saw-sharpening. And I do know that there are re-sharpenable Japanese blades for those with a masoschistic bent. But I neither own any re-sharpenable blades, nor do I intend trying to sharpen any, ever! So when I said "no-one resharpens" I really meant just the 99% who use the hardened blades.......

Meh! Agumentative types.......

Chao

Originally Posted by IanW

Yeah Matt, I actually have one of them-there 'feather files', which I use for jobs other than saw-sharpening. And I do know that there are re-sharpenable Japanese blades for those with a masoschistic bent. But I neither own any re-sharpenable blades, nor do I intend trying to sharpen any, ever! So when I said "no-one resharpens" I really meant just the 99% who use the hardened blades.......

Meh! Agumentative types.......

Chao

I just be in me hole if any one else needs any useless advice.

Cheers Matt

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I just be in me hole if any one else needs any useless advice....

Hey Matt, don't go all sensitive on me now! I thought you'd fire back with something to keep me in my place after my smart-a** reply....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Hey Matt, don't go all sensitive on me now! I thought you'd fire back with something to keep me in my place after my smart-a** reply....

Cheers,

I've been trying to keep mr bush millar busy in my other thread the wall of saws.
I was expecting a hit from you there [emoji12].
There all western just like you like [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I've been trying to keep mr bush millar busy in my other thread the wall of saws.....
I was expecting a hit from you there ......

Nah, been following your thread over the last few days, but you & Paul have been having such a nice time sparking off each other, I thought it would be crass to butt-in.....
Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Nah, been following your thread over the last few days, but you & Paul have been having such a nice time sparking off each other, I thought it would be crass to butt-in.....
Cheers,

But we have been eagerly expecting the God father of saws.
Well you at least in this little part of the world.
You also will happily know ,your little number that I use quite regularly sits with my little number on the proper tool board above the bench.
Not with the rustic relics lol.
I hear rust can be contagious.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

....I hear rust can be contagious.....

Matt, the sawplate I've been using these last few years doesn't need any help! The damn stuff just turns into iron oxide on the slightest provocation. A couple of weeks ago I was having a short break from kitchen-building & painting and started work on a 'commission' job, a largish (350 x 100mm blade) tenon saw. I got as far as roughing out the handle & fitting the blade & spine, then had to put it aside to get back to the big job of the moment. A few days ago, I had another hour or two to kill while some paint dried, so I snuck down to the shed & pulled out the saw to do a bit more work on it. Right smack in the middle of the 'show' side was a small rosette of rust! I must've shed a droplet of sweat on it before I put it aside. It has cleaned off (with a good deal of elbow-grease), but it was a reminder of how easy it is to get a blemish on bright, shiny spring steel. I still haven't quite finished the saw, but I made darn sure it was well slathered with paste wax before I left it, this time!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Matt, the sawplate I've been using these last few years doesn't need any help! The damn stuff just turns into iron oxide on the slightest provocation. A couple of weeks ago I was having a short break from kitchen-building & painting and started work on a 'commission' job, a largish (350 x 100mm blade) tenon saw. I got as far as roughing out the handle & fitting the blade & spine, then had to put it aside to get back to the big job of the moment. A few days ago, I had another hour or two to kill while some paint dried, so I snuck down to the shed & pulled out the saw to do a bit more work on it. Right smack in the middle of the 'show' side was a small rosette of rust! I must've shed a droplet of sweat on it before I put it aside. It has cleaned off (with a good deal of elbow-grease), but it was a reminder of how easy it is to get a blemish on bright, shiny spring steel. I still haven't quite finished the saw, but I made darn sure it was well slathered with paste wax before I left it, this time!

Cheers,

I know the feeling,would newspaper or wax paper work Ian.
Just rap the plate up once you have finished for the day.
Would also save having to clean paste wax of it,
Or even just a rag sprayed with some WD40 or what have you.
Saying that the last piece of plate I got from the class Dale organised is still looking good.
Yes even residing in Ballarat.
So I think your right it must of been a drop of sweat especially if it was a rosette shape.

Talking of saw plate I think that's a subject that needs to rear its ugly head again.

Cheers Matt

Originally Posted by IanW

Graeme, are you sure of the accuracy of your calipers? A thickness of ~8 thou seems incredibly thin to me - just a tad more than half of the 15 thou thickness that I consider the practical minimum for a 'push' saw .....

Hi, IanW.

I also had doubts as soon as you queried it.

I had to go down to the University today and got one of their technicians to measure the saw plate. He measured at six places and the thickness varied between 0.20 and 0.21 mm. That translates to 7.87 to 8.27 thou !

Its just a standard 150 mm Dozuki from Carbatec. In their adv they quote the kerf at 0.28 mm and the blade thickness at 0.2 mm, and 30 tpi.
https://www.carbatec.com.au/handtool...ese-dozuki-saw


Fair Winds

Graeme

Hi Graeme, yes, further snooping has informed me that your calipers weren't lying!

I reckon what works, works, and 0.2mm plate obviously does work for a Dozuki, but it would make a very delicate push saw. They do exist, as teeny 'razor' saws, but I wouldn't advise making a larger one like a dovetail saw with it. But then again, who knows, maybe it could work!?

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I know the feeling,would newspaper or wax paper work Ian....

Matt, my shed is nice & dry & I'm far enough from the sea that I don't normally get much grief from rust. I do wax my working saws occasionally, to lubricate them more than protect from rust. So there's usually a bit of residual wax on them, & on hot days particularly, I always wipe the saws I've been using over with a dry rag before putting them away. A drop of salty sweat will do a number on any polished steel!

Originally Posted by Simplicity

.......Talking of saw plate I think that's a subject that needs to rear its ugly head again.....

You'll have to negotiate with Dale on that front- he was the one who did all the leg work & organising. I'm definitely out of a future sawplate buy - I am determined to quit the habit for good! Far too many other projects lined up, and I don't seem to be able to work at the pace I once did, so I'm beginning to fear the

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Hi Graeme, yes, further snooping has informed me that your calipers weren't lying!

Yep; they have now been tested and they are true, confirmed.

Wow, can't believe it's been so long since i started and then stopped practicing dovetails. Anyhow, I've been so busy with finishing my Masters in Business, along with a few other bits and pieces, the last few months, I hadn't even had a chance to cut some dovetails with my western dovetail saws.

So after finishing my final ever essay at 4 pm today (oooohhh Yeah!) I went out in the garage and I cut myself some dovetails - this time with a Bad Axe 10" dovetail saw. It was a little different to the Japanese dozuki, but by the last corner of pins I decided to try cutting right to the line and managed to get a great fit straight off the saw! No paring required! I was pumped!

I really enjoyed cutting with the western saw, even though I think this is mainly because I like the actual saw so much and therefore it feels good to work with it - like a good friend I know will still be around in 50 years if I look after it. Unlike the Japanese dozuki, which cuts extremely well (smoother than the western saw), but feels like just a consumable tool.

I cut the practice dovetails on some left-over tassie oak and made a super basic box that I figured could hold the cube robot I built - just need to make a lid for it.

20171108_072826.jpg20171108_073130.jpg20171108_074554.jpg20171110_214649.jpg

Now that I'm free of study for good (don't think I'll ever do any more formal education!) I can really learn to use all of the tools I've been accumulating lately. Can't wait.

Cheers,

Dom

Originally Posted by DomAU

.....I really enjoyed cutting with the western saw, even though I think this is mainly because I like the actual saw so much and therefore it feels good to work with it - ......

Dom, this is something I often blather on about, I reckon a tool that you like using because it feels right in your hand ineevitably leads to better work. It's all in your mind, of course, but that's where the control & guidance of the tool comes from, too!

Originally Posted by DomAU

.....Now that I'm free of study for good (don't think I'll ever do any more formal education!)....

I made similar statements at several points in my life, starting at 16 when I left school to start an apprenticeship. I think I finally managed to kick the habit in my 50s.....

Cheers,