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  1. #1
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    Default What wood for cabinetry and furniture?

    Can some experienced furniture and cabinet makers give some advice on what wood should be used for making cabinets, sideboards and bookshelves.

    I'm only a hobbyist and have only managed to use cheaper plywood and joined pine wood...
    However, I'm not particularly too satisfied with the finish.

    What wood do people use for professional finish?
    eg. plywood with veneer?
    mdf? hard wood?

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  3. #2
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    Any timber which is stable is good for furniture. 10-12% moisture content seems to be a pretty good place to start.

    Take a look at Available Timber Species

    Some timbers are easy to work with, some are very hard and heavy! As a general rule, I find timbers with Janka hardness rating of 7.0 or below to be pretty easy to work with.

    A few commonly used hardwoods for furniture commercially..

    Tasmanian Oak / Vic Ash
    Tas. Blackwood
    US Black walnut
    US white oak

    You can buy veneered MDF panels with a ~0.6mm thick real timber veneer. I personally dislike this stuff because 0.6mm is VERY easy to sand all the way through, and the clients hear you say "veneer" and they think "ewww, ikea use veneer!"

  4. #3
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    Why do I have an impression that most stuff they sell at Freedom are simply particleboards with veneer?

    I find that it's hard to sell commercially with real timber, as most customers find those prices extravagant when they compare with Ikea prices.

  5. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wwf9984 View Post
    Can some experienced furniture and cabinet makers give some advice on what wood should be used for making cabinets, sideboards and bookshelves.

    I'm only a hobbyist and have only managed to use cheaper plywood and joined pine wood...
    However, I'm not particularly too satisfied with the finish.

    What wood do people use for professional finish?
    eg. plywood with veneer?
    mdf? hard wood?
    Hi wwf,

    it sounds like your primary problem is finishing, rather than timber selection.
    By cheaper plywood, I'm guessing you mean C/D ply, rather than furniture grade A/A or A/B ply. The letters refer to the quality of the surface layers, and furniture grade usually means that there are no voids within the ply.


    obtaining a "professional finish" needs much more than cabinet grade timber or ply.
    To my mind, a typical "professional" finish is one where the timber has a uniform look -- achieved via sanding or a smoothing plane -- where the grain is filled, either with finish or a suitable grain filler. In other words, a finish with high tactile attraction.


    What I suggest you do is make some document boxes.
    These are small enough to not cost much in terms of timber, but represent excellent opportunities to practice your jointing and finishing techniques.
    You can use the boxes to experiment with finishing technique, timber appearance and workability. After a few boxes, you will have an idea for yourself as to what is a suitable cabinet timber for your needs.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  6. #5
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    The problem i'm having is marketing my furnitures.

    When people are constantly comparing a wood furniture, which would cost $500-1000 simply for wood to something that's like in Freedom.

    To the customer, there's hardly any difference, because they just compare based on prices instead of the wood that's used.

    So real question is...in a commercial world, (Not fine furniture) do they simply use veneer over cheap particleboard or they are simply cheaper because it's mass produced?

  7. #6
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    One thing is for sure, high quality plywood is NOT cheap at least in these parts.

    I find really soft woods to be hard to work up to a good surface, soft pine, Japanese cedar etc. - old, hard heart pine is a different story.
    There are some softwoods with dense fine grain, like cypressus macrocarpa or totara or kauri that are soft, yet nice to work. I've also used either Leyland or Lawson cypress with good results. Hell, I can't even remember if I saw any cypressus macrocarpa in Aus when I was over there three years ago - here in NZ they are around every old farm house, and the timber is readily available.

    Other than that I would vote for the same hardwoods already mentioned, and add American white ash; walnut, black walnut, chestnut, beech and various oak species. I also work an awful lot with gum because I've had several big gum trees milled off my farm. Works up really nicely if you treat it well. Fruit wood is interesting - in Europe cherry, pear and apple are highly desirable timbers, but to be honest I don't know if they have the same growth characteristics Down Under. Never had a chance at using them here. Some timbers sure grow differently here than in their native habitat.

  8. #7
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    real timber is just so expensive to even make ANYTHING.
    ply is expensive but still a lot cheaper than real hardwood.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwf9984 View Post
    The problem i'm having is marketing my furnitures.

    When people are constantly comparing a wood furniture, which would cost $500-1000 simply for wood to something that's like in Freedom.

    To the customer, there's hardly any difference, because they just compare based on prices instead of the wood that's used.

    So real question is...in a commercial world, (Not fine furniture) do they simply use veneer over cheap particleboard or they are simply cheaper because it's mass produced?
    it's a bit of everything.

    in a commercial world, makers wherever possible are buying timber by the cubic metre, if not the truck load, which lowers the value of wood in a piece considerably. Bought in quantity, $1000 of wood would equate to at least half a cubic metre.

    They are also using a mixture of veneered board (ply, MDF, Particle board) and solid wood, and sometimes doing their own veneering.

    plus using tools like biscuit jointers and Festool's domino to save time. (I subscribe to the UK magazine Furniture and Cabinetmaking. Makers writing for the magazine frequently use biscuits to position and align a veneered MDF panel for frame and panel work. The MDF panel will be veneered with the same timber as being used for the carcass.) Note the MDF or particle board or ply used for veneering is not "cheap" just lower cost in terms of material and time compared to solid wood.

    Unless the wood is "special", eg bird's eye maple, or tiger myrtle, etc, the value of wood in a piece should only be a fraction of the piece's cost of production. The value of the time to prepare the wood and build the piece, finish it and then market it should far exceed the value of the wood used.


    At the end of the day it comes down to marketing.

    If what you make looks like something you might buy at Freedom, you can't expect to get much more than Freedom prices for it.
    But if it looks special, and is marketed as special, then you should be able to demand a premium price regardless of the type of wood used.


    I'm not sure if you saw the recent Forum discussion on the $1100 box that was being marketed as something special, rare, heirloom quality. What stood out was that, apart from the wood used, the box was identical in construction and finish to ones the same seller was selling for less than $300 including postage to the US.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  10. #9
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    Just say for a sideboard for instance.
    You wouldn't use real timber all around would you? Because getting timber in 2 meters long by 60cm deep would cost a fortune for all sides.

    So i'm guessing cabinetmarkers would then use veneered boards? perhaps only use real wood for trims and edging?

  11. #10
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    I worked for a place in Melb (not for very long) which did exactly that. made their buffets, bedhead/foots using veneered MDF with solid timber edging/faceframes etc. I see them come up on facebook buyswapsell pages from time to time. They were sold to the retailer for about 1000bux, the retailer trys to sell them for $2200, 3 years pass by the owner/client is trying to offload it on someone else for $100-250 because it is ragged looking.

  12. #11
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    Agree with some of the sentiments above. I think making 'stuff' that is competing with 'stuff' that sells in Ikea/Freedom is not going to allow you much margin. cookie cutter coffee tables and tv units are nearly a commodity item, and seldom seem to fetch much, and you'll never keep your costs as low as what the big chains can.....But..if you make something just that bit different, classy, and market it as such, it will have much more value.

    I'm constantly amazed by the prices i see fairly basic furniture in 'designer showrooms' on Bridge Road in Richmond etc, where if they were displayed in less 'classy' environs would probably fetch much less. When i say basic, i mean, design wise, it's beautiful, but nothing overly amazing in regard to finishing, detail, joinery or materials. Just nice design, and very well visually merchandised to feel 'expensive'.

    Agree with the cost of furniture grade plywood though. I got quoted $400+ for a sheet of 1200x2400x19 furniture grade ply a while back ( can't remember exactly what ).......i would love to make more things out of plywood, but i guess it's not like the U.S. where it seems to be everywhere, and super cheap :/

    EDIT:
    Coffee Tables | Venus and Mars | King Living - Case in point on marketing and making it feel 'special' - in my opinion, this exact table might be $300 at Ikea...but put it on Church street in a 'Showroom', call it something exotic "Venus & Mars" and hey presto your 900mm round VENEER table is worth $1,280! Once you are in the showroom, and the ultra cool 'consultant' tells you how amazing it is, and that <insert sporting personality> has one just like it, and because it has the sticker of $1,280 it's worth that! High margin, low volume .
    Last edited by Sebastiaan76; 15th February 2016 at 09:55 PM. Reason: adding example

  13. #12
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    Default

    $400 a sheet is ridiculous, hope it's veneered.

    but even with a sheet, it's probably not enough to make one sideboard.

  14. #13
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    Exactly.....hence i scrapped that idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by wwf9984 View Post
    $400 a sheet is ridiculous, hope it's veneered.

    but even with a sheet, it's probably not enough to make one sideboard.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiaan76 View Post
    Agree with the cost of furniture grade plywood though. I got quoted $400+ for a sheet of 1200x2400x19 furniture grade ply a while back ( can't remember exactly what ).......i would love to make more things out of plywood, but i guess it's not like the U.S. where it seems to be everywhere, and super cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by wwf9984 View Post
    $400 a sheet is ridiculous, hope it's veneered.

    but even with a sheet, it's probably not enough to make one sideboard.
    $400 RETAIL for a sheet of 2400x1200x19mm furniture grade ply seems about right to me. Of course it would be much less than half that if you were buying it by the pack or truck load.



    Quote Originally Posted by wwf9984 View Post
    Just say for a sideboard for instance.
    You wouldn't use real timber all around would you? Because getting timber in 2 meters long by 60cm deep would cost a fortune for all sides.

    So i'm guessing cabinetmarkers would then use veneered boards? perhaps only use real wood for trims and edging?
    Just some comments on this ...
    I would only try to source timber 600 wide for a special project which carried an appropriate price premium -- think high 4 figures, or even five.
    For starters dressing a 600mm wide board would mostly be a hand operation as I don't know where I could access a 600mm wide jointer.

    More normally, if I needed a 600mm wide solid wood board I'd glue one up from 100 or 150mm wide planks, paying particular attention to obtaining a pleasing grain orientation. Of course this would require that I buy approximately 50% more timber than strictly needed.

    Thinking back to the TV / entertainment unit we built as part of my Trade course,
    we used veneered particle board edged with solid wood, with solid wood (from memory 4x1s) construction rails.
    (the plinth was straight particle board veneered in the shop with black laminate).
    The back was veneered MDF
    The side board looked "special" because it had a curved front and curved doors.
    The doors were shop laminated using 3 sheets of 3mm veneered MDF, edged all round with solid wood. (Trimming the solid wood edging to the shape of the doors was a real pain.)
    construction relied on screws with biscuits used for alignment.

    Once assembled and polished, it took a very keen eye to spot that the unit wasn't solid wood.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  16. #15
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    Just to add some food for thought, veneered panels of ply/MDF/particle board may be desirable in some instances where furniture is exposed to widely varying temperatures/humidity and where wood movement might be an issue. I've gone through the same frustrations myself in regards to the real costs of timber (at least in a retail setting) however if you are going to be selling your products then there are plenty of areas where you could save costs (aka cut corners) just like the bulk manufacturers do....either that or market to customers that understand that quality = higher costs.

    Alternatively, if you invest in a reasonable combo machine (thicknesser/planer) you should be able to start recycling your own timber from house demolition, etc. I've found many ebay sellers that are looking to offload old framing timbers.

    Good luck

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