Thread: New Workshop Advice

Buy as and when you need a tool.

Otherwise buy a very large property first.

$12,000 OMG that makes me green with envy.................... :eek:
Buy all the Triton gear or if you want something better, buy really expensive stuff and paint it all orange.

first up welcome to the BB

Ok several questions need to be asked to get a feel for what your asking

1. how big is the work shop?, can you fit a sliding table in or not? remember that a sliding table/panel saw can take up your normal home work shop all by itself
2. what tools do you already own?
3. what sort of quality do you want in the tools you buy?
4. do you have a preference for a certain brand of tool?
5. How big do you want to go in the main power tools? ie table saw 10 or 12 inch blade, 6-8-12 inch in the jointer, 12 -15 -20 inch in the thicknesser
6. is any of this money to be used for other than tool purposes ie do you need to pay for your 3ph power out of this money?
7. Why the incra jigs?

well thats a start

Cheers Ian

Originally Posted by dazzler

Hi All,

I am about to set up my new workshop and am after advice as to what I should include as far as machinery and tools go.

The budget is $12000 and will mostly be making high quality household furniture such as tall boys, bedside tables etc.

I really like the Incra Jigs so whatever I get would need to suit the Incra.

Any advice on which Incra to get?

What machines......table saw or panel saw, Router (spindle moulder) Drill Press, Bandsaw, Wood Lathe, Planer Thicknesser (or seperate) etc.. Hope to have 3 phase power.

Any advice regards brand etc would be appreciated.

cheers

dazzler

Band saw. Jointer and thicknesser. Various length of good quality sash cramps and G clamps. Trestles in sizes from 12" high to 4' high. A good accountant. A lot of knowledge. A biscuit jointer. Subby out your turning unless you are up to production turning standard. A good quality cordless drill. An acceptance of failure. A good sense of humour. A leigh dovetail jig. 2 or 3 good quality routers. A lot of patience. A good timber supplier. Router bits. A good quality Random Orbital Sander

Most machines at the top end of the hobby, semi professional market will do the job. As Jow says buy as you need them. If you are doing cabinet work in TIMBER I find a bandsaw does all you need. If you are making kitchens from Melamine all you need is a good panel saw, 2 cordless drills and a drill press. Oh, and an edge bander.

Welcome to the board.

Just a short reply to two of your questions:

Any advice on which Incra to get?

The 16 or 24" Ultra.
Remember that metric measures and locking blocks are available as optional.




What machines Planer Thicknesser (or seperate)

Definate seperate if you are serious about your woodwork!

Lots of good luck will help too! So good luck mate.

Hi, Dazzler,

Originally Posted by dazzler

The budget is $12000 and will mostly be making high quality household furniture such as tall boys, bedside tables etc.

When I read this I was immediately reminded of a taxi driver I met once in the days of two-way radio. Every now and then, before signing off at the end of his shift he'd call base and "announce" he had picked up a fare to the Gold Coast (about $150 fare from Brisbane) just to stir up the envy amongst the other cabbies ..... that is, until they caught on.

Anyway, I'll take your $12,000 at face value for now, and give you my slant on the task, and that is this:

You can purchase routers, dovetail jigs, sanding devices, and slide compound mitre saws, even a table saw, as you need them. You can build your own workbenches, storage racks, and jigs as you need them. But for making ANYTHING, and particularly furniture, timber must be straight, true, square .... and endless frustration will follow if short-cuts are taken in this area. Thus, my minimum would be:

Bandsaw (recommend 18")
Jointer (recommend long tables - 6ft long, 8")
Thicknesser (recommend 15")

If this takes half your budget then I doubt you will regret it. I originally had a 13" thicknesser and although it was OK for already-dressed timber, it could not handle rough sawn timber very well. I traded it on a 15" Jet that is also wide enough to thickness most glued-up panels! Saves me lots of time! If I was buying today I'd probably purchase the Powermatic 15" thicknesser because it has spiral cutters. I originally had a 6" jointer subsequently traded for an 8" Powermatic. 6" is arguably wide enough, but the tables on my old jointer were not long enough, and the extra horsepower of the 8" makes it a much more serious machine. Flattening boards on an underpowered jointer is very frustrating. Look for at least 2hp.

Jet and Powermatic are near the top end, quality and price-wise, for non-professional solid-wood woodworkers, but there are plenty of comments on this list about cheaper brands that are also reasonable quality.

Qw

Qw,

Wouldn't those three things take up more than half the budget? For those of us with smaller budgets would you recommend buying smaller first say 14" Bandsaw and then trading up when possible or save the pennies, wait a while and go straight to the big stuff, how much money do you lose on trading up?

HH.

Originally Posted by QldWoodie

Hi, Dazzler,


When I read this I was immediately reminded of a taxi driver I met once in the days of two-way radio. Every now and then, before signing off at the end of his shift he'd call base and "announce" he had picked up a fare to the Gold Coast (about $150 fare from Brisbane) just to stir up the envy amongst the other cabbies ..... that is, until they caught on.

Anyway, I'll take your $12,000 at face value for now, and give you my slant on the task, and that is this:


Qw

My $12000 came from the sale of my race car that I had to sell after having both tibual plateaus smashed in both knees when a fool took out the side of my car preventing me from ever racing again.

Sorry if that makes anyone envious

dazzler

Can you visit with someone in the Hobart area who is already doing what you want to do? Are you intending to do semi-commercial work or just hobby / for yourself & friends type work? Try to find someone who'll walk you around their workshop. And maybe go visit a small commercial set up.

There are SOOOOOO many tool options out there. But generally you get what you pay for. You could spread your money thin and get lot's of cheaper tools. And have lots of junk tools within a short period of time. I know $12,000 sounds like a lot, but you'll be amazed how fast that can go out the door for quality stuff.

I shoped around for older / second-hand "built like a brick **** house" cast iron stuff. (Most of the smaller / mid size commercial workshops in my area had done the same - older second hand stuff - but very solid). My fundamental / workhorse equipment comprises an old German Kamro sliding table panel saw and an Italian SCM Invincible over-under 16 inch planer / thicknesser. With these I can do just about all the basic accurate / square wood preparation. They weigh a couple of ton each and never skip a beat. But even second hand - would soak up about $8,000 of the budget. But if you then spend the $4,000 balance on quality stuff (Triton router, Makita biscuit jointer and Makita belt sander, Festool orbital sander, quality clamps, chisels, etc) you'll be started. But soon find you want an air compressor / spay gun, etc etc etc...... IT NEVER ENDS!!!

Originally Posted by HappyHammer

Wouldn't those three things take up more than half the budget? For those of us with smaller budgets would you recommend buying smaller first say 14" Bandsaw and then trading up when possible or save the pennies, wait a while and go straight to the big stuff, how much money do you lose on trading up?

Jet 18" bandsaw $1800, Powermatic 8" jointer $1800, Jet 15" thicknesser $2500 total $6100, bid the supplier down $100 = $6000 = half the budget (not counting the dust extraction).

A 14" bandsaw would be cheaper and would be quite capable of resawing 6" boards just a bit slower, so this would be OK, particularly if you also bought a good table saw/panel saw.

You can get 6" jointers with long tables, rather than 8", but if I was compromising (and I had plenty of shed real estate) I'd rather invest in 3 phase power and buy a second hand big jointer and second hand large thicknesser.

What are the compromises/differences between serious (professional) tools, and non-professional applications? It is usually one of a) size, and b) duty cycle, and only sometimes precision.

Thus in non-professional applications a router will do a good job in applications that, in a professional shop, would call for a spindle moulder. The router might have to make many passes, and take more time, but the quality of the finished product will be as good or better and because you are not doing it day in and day out the router won't be worn out in 3 weeks.

But for some tasks, the smaller lower-duty-cycle tools really just can't match the bigger more powerful tools. Making timber straight, square, true is one of these (you need long tables and enough horsepower to do a proper job). Making furniture requires a lot of timber to be sized and squared up and you don't want to spend forever doing it. And you want to be sure that one piece of 65mm x 19mm board you pick up is EXACTLY the same dimensions as any other piece of 65mm x 19mm board and that you don't have to sight along every piece to satisfy yourself that it is straight before use.

Some people love using jointer planes (which, incidentally might still cost a lot!) to square up and true the timber, but then your hobby should probably not be described as "making furniture" but might better be defined as "playing around with hand planes" ..... a hobby that I'm sure is very fulfilling (as attested to by many on this board) but is not the question that was originally asked by Dazzler.

In the last 4 years I have traded in (for bigger ones) my thicknesser, jointer, and dust extraction systems. I guess I dropped a few hundred dollars on each, but the frustration of trying to make a small tool do a job when a bigger tool is really called for has been the bigger cost. Getting this unchallenging part of the job done quickly and accurately allows me to spend more time on the more challenging more interesting parts of the jobs.

Qw

Qw,

I like the idea of buying bigger and stronger second hand machines but it seems to be one of those "Right place, right time" things. Is there anywhere that specialise in second hand machines?

HH.

Dont scrimp on getting your workshop wired up, these machines are going to need quite a bit of power.
I also hope you have understanding neighbours
Clint

Happyhammer,

Originally Posted by HappyHammer

I like the idea of buying bigger and stronger second hand machines but it seems to be one of those "Right place, right time" things.

Yes, it is one of those "Right place, right time" things.

I admit that one of my hobbies is also "going to auctions of closing-down furniture shops." These shops all work in MDF panels and other artificial boards of course, but they also often have solid wood timber offcuts used for edgings, stacked in a corner, covered in saw dust, that no one else is bidding on. I have got some very interesting and different timber at these auctions. As for equipment: Panel saws are usually keenly bid for, but older gear like thicknessers, jointers, overhead routers and sometimes spindle moulders running on 3-phase are often available at a reasonable price, and often with a set of bits or spare blades that themselves might cost as much as the equipment item. In commercial shops these larger tools are invariably 3-phase.

You won't get any bargains on 240 volt gear. The routers and other hand tools always sell for (in my opinion) stupid prices. And for routers I think I would prefer to buy new because the new routers with soft start and better plunge and locking mechanisms and much quieter running are worth the extra cost.

There are some dealers specialising in second-hand tools, and most new equipment suppliers also have some second hand equipment if you specifically ask to see it. Radial arm saws that seem to have fallen out of popularity a bit in favour of the slide-compound-mitre-saw are often available. Slot mortisers and also hollow-chisel mortisers are another item of equipment that you see second hand quite a bit --- but then most of us don't really have a great need for these. I have a multi-router that I bought 2nd hand for $1500 -- sells for more than $5,000 here (though I never would have bought it at that price!).

Qw

Hare & Forbes sell second hand machinery probably brought for a song from the closing down auctions mentioned above, but its a start. Sydney phone 02 9890 9111. I have no assosciation/ interest in this company (I wished I did, but reallity sets in ) Good luck with your new work shop or was it toy house .