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Thread: Management of Gunns plantations
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15th October 2013, 08:57 PM #1Senior Member
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Management of Gunns plantations
Hi guys,
We purchased some land down here in Tassie a few months back and it contains roughly 100 acres of Gunns plantations. It was planted 5 years ago and is due to be harvested in another 10 years.
Given that it's all up in the air- does anyone have any advice on what to do with it. As far as I am aware, we're contractually obligated to leave it alone, however given that the harvest date is so far away, I'm under the impression that the liquidators will sell off the plots that are coming up for harvest in the next few years and will cut and run before ours comes to maturity.
We have issues, in that it's a fire hazard and that in 10 years we'll probably be left with trees that no one wants because they're only good for chips, or they haven't been maintained and they're full of weeds and other plants.
Does anyone know if there is a way for us to do any kind of maintenance in the mean time that will a) reduce the risk of fire, and b) allow us to have trees of even a little quality that might be worth something in the future?
We're also keen in finding out more about maintaining the rest of the land- does anyone know of any good native forestry management books or resources?
Thanks.
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15th October 2013 08:57 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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16th October 2013, 10:00 PM #2GOLD MEMBER
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At this time I'd suggest contacting the Receivers and see what they have to say for themselves.
If you don't have a copy of the original contract, ask them for a copy so you can check your obligations if any regarding maintenance, clearing and such. If you are not obliged to look after the plantation, tell them that the block is not being maintained possibly leading to loss of value.
They may make an offer to you for you to buy out the trees or even just say they are of negligible value and they are all yours to do with as you please (firewood plantation?) - keep a copy of all correspondence
If you are worried about fire hazard, keep a cleared area around the plantation so any fire won't spread into the more useful parts of your property - maybe even have a word to the local fire service about bushfire hazards, if there is one plantation going to ruin in an area there are likely to be several and the local firies should know where they stand in relation to hazard reduction
In any case, don't panic.
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21st October 2013, 08:32 AM #3Retired
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Contact the receivers.
You will not be unique with your query..
I find it hard to imagine why the receivers haven't communicated this to you. As the lessee on an asset, it is their job to use it to to maximise the return to a creditor.
If they just walk away, which I sort of doubt (rights will be sold to some other mongrel company), then you have a forrest to play with
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21st October 2013, 08:44 AM #4Retired
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Well, 1 minute on google thoroughly answered this.
The info you need is here: Gunns Limited & Gunns Plantation Limited | PPB Advisory and also at 3:15 here: More Managed Investment Scheme uncertainty - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Not trying to be overly critical, but if you "recently" purchased this land (post collapse) and your solicitor didn't lay it all out to you, I'd be speaking to a lawyer.
If they did advise you, then you must not have read the contracts. I would very strongly suggest you get on top of this. Reading through to info would suggest you are on the hook for quite a bit. If you drop the ball there could be severe financial ramifications.
Given your query and your financial interest in this, plus the ease the simplest of searches turned up some extremely relevant info very fast, perhaps you should speak to someone (like a solicitor) who can help you manage this. You need to get informed and fast.
E
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21st October 2013, 06:54 PM #5Senior Member
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I have looked online in a number of places for information about what's happening and it's all the same news: No one knows what's happening.
The only other news that I have received is that by the time they sort it all out- then it will be too late to do anything really worthwhile with the trees other than chip them because all the maintenance hasn't been kept up.
We purchased pre-collapse, but knew it was potentially likely to happen. We didn't purchase with a dependance on the income from those trees, so anything that we do get will be a bonus. We have also worded the transfer contract so that the person we purchased from will be required to cover financial costs if they arise.
I just don't believe that with 10 years left on the contract that anyone will pick up the lease. No one will want to pay yearly lease for the next 10 years for trees that aren't worth that much.
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22nd October 2013, 03:01 PM #6GOLD MEMBER
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What does it actually say in the contract you have signed? I wouldnt be talking to the receivers as they will tell you to keep your cotton picken fingers off. Get good legal advise and go from there.
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22nd October 2013, 08:36 PM #7Senior Member
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Contracts says no touchy, which we have honoured, we haven't even gone into the plantation.
We will continue to clear around the plantation, to try to keep the fire risk down, and that's it.
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22nd October 2013, 10:21 PM #8GOLD MEMBER
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Ok, if thats what the contract says fair enough. So the duty of care is on Gunns receivers so hold them to it. They dont have the right to place you in harms way with summer coming on. More than likely they will condescendingly give you permission to go in and carry out the necessary work. Hit em with a quote if you need the income, but be careful, only if you have liability insurance etc. These guys dont take prisoners. Better they organise their own contractor or sign the plot back over to you. Be pushy, you might be able to score yourself a free plot of trees. Dont take any s*#t off the bathtubs, its your property that is at risk while they stuff about.
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23rd October 2013, 10:17 PM #9GOLD MEMBER
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Why wouldn't the trees produce millable timber in the long run ?
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23rd October 2013, 10:33 PM #10Senior Member
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Anecdotally we've been told that as maintenance hasn't been kept up, then they quality of timber will only be good enough to chip
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24th October 2013, 03:12 AM #11
Hi
I find it inconceivable that something like a 100 acre wood lot leased to Gunns would not be wrapped up in excruciating detail in a contract most probably attached as a covernant to the land title documents. I believe Macquarie Bank was associated with many of the Gunns timber schemes -- which should be "enough said"
I also find it inconceivable that the contract merely says "no touchy".
I would expect that you are under an obligation to protect the trees from any and all risks originating in or passing through your property. eg if your house burns down and the fire spreads to the wood lot, you the owner will be responsible for the tree owner's financial loss, likewise if a grass fire runs through your place and destroys the trees, it will be your neck. You might also be responsible when the blackberries in your gully spread to the trees, so even the weeds among the trees might be your problem.
I would also expect that regardless of how the transfer contract was worded, the liability is entirely yours
wood lot contracts are drafted by very smart, sneaky lawyers paid millions per year in salary and even more in annual bonuses (because they are very good at their jobs), which are designed to be signed by a property owner who may not have finished high school.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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24th October 2013, 09:48 AM #12GOLD MEMBER
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I guess we will only know what the obligations are once we know the content of the contract.
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24th October 2013, 07:59 PM #13Senior Member
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There is a covenant on the title, and there is a very wordy contract, we don't have any buildings on the land, and are very careful with any fires. The land is locked up so no one else has access and we will continue to clear around it till we know what's happening. Luckily there isn't any blackberries or gorse on the land.
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24th October 2013, 08:36 PM #14
CodeMunk3y
You may wish to read this http://www.ppbadvisory.com/uploads/i...t-Number-7.pdf and other information on the administrators/ receiver's web site. Gunns Limited & Gunns Plantation Limited | PPB Advisory
Burried in there is information on actions the Gunns receivers have taken to date. I'm sure I saw something about land owners being issued with notices under the corporations act. Perhaps your notice went to the previous owner, perhaps you need to register the change in ownership with the receivers.
The bits of information I found I particularly interesting are:
- the Administrators do not have the necessary funds to pay the rent accruing under the leases of land used in the MIS.
- the rights of GPL Woodlot Scheme investors have been reserved in relation to the scheme trees
- landlords may be held to account in relation to scheme trees.
- the obligation to undertake fire maintenance works in respect of leased land is generally imposed on both the land owner and lessee.
regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
- the Administrators do not have the necessary funds to pay the rent accruing under the leases of land used in the MIS.
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24th October 2013, 08:38 PM #15
You need to know a great deal more about the timber before making any call on this. Starting with what species they are might be the go.
Remember that big timber companies don't have (e.g.) Mulga plantations, but it sells for very good coin. In fact I would suggest that timber companies only have a limited range of species that they will consider, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't be used for other applications.
As far as not keeping up the maintenance: Mapleman gets fantastic timber out of paddock-grown trees (and they sure as hell don't get any maintenance - not from him anyway ).
All I'm saying is get all the facts first because different markets have different views of different species.
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