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12th August 2010, 08:55 PM #1
Flush Cut Saw problem: Nakaya Kugihiki
I have been plugging a lot of imperfections in a heavy workbench made of Jarrah. Previously I was using a Lee valley single edge flush cut saw and cut perhaps 60-70 "dominos" made out of Jarrah.
However, since it had seen previous use it had a few buckles and dings so I thought I would get a 'nice' saw, especially since I still have a long way to go with repairs.
Anyway, I bought a Nakaya Kugihiki, which is supposedly a good quality saw and should be perfect for the job.
I cut six (6) dominos and the saw was stuffed, see the photo. I don't know whether the Jarrah is simply too hard for the teeth but it sure seems that way. I was letting the teeth do the cutting and was quite surprised when I couldn't move the blade. I had a look then noticed the teeth were gone. I caused a few dings pulling the saw out of the domino.
I retrieved the LV saw from the bin and finished up the job with it. I could not recommend these saws on Australian timbers, judging from this effort (the saw did less than 15 minutes work).
Anyone else found the same? Was it me? Something I did or didn't do?
Which saw would you recommend for this task?
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12th August 2010, 09:00 PM #2
Wow, never seen anything like that Grogs. I have a hand made Jap saw and I have been using the ones that Bunnies carry, name escapes me at the moment. I have used them to cut anything and everything, the only thing that has dulled the edge much was nails but still didn't break any teeth off.
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12th August 2010, 09:16 PM #3
I guess to say I was disappointed is understating things. The Kugihiki is 0.2mm thick so I guess the teeth are very brittle. I have just ordered another Veritas saw
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12th August 2010, 09:20 PM #4
Yep, that would be super disapointing. You buy what you think is a quality tool only to find it can't handle the pressure.
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12th August 2010, 09:52 PM #5Senior Member
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I have read about Japanese saws not suitable for hardwoods but I use them exclusively, the Gyukucho & Shark brand, mostly because I can saw "straighter" with the pull stroke.
Never sawn Jarrah but have used them on Red Stringybark which is pretty dense and hard to me. So far, have not broken a tooth yet. Mostly because I am slow.
But, seeing how an entire row of teeth broken in succession would lead me to think the saw is faulty. Or the hardened teeth are just too brittle.
Gunn
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12th August 2010, 10:04 PM #6
I've got that exact same saw and had the exact same problem. It is a piece of sh*t IMHO.
Cheers
Michael
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13th August 2010, 02:22 AM #7
Take it back. Demand a refund.
Pugwash.
Never criticise Australia Post. One day they might find out where you live.
www.clivequinn.com
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13th August 2010, 03:45 AM #8
Hi Greg
I agree that the saw has a problem.
For reference I use the same LV as you have, plus another LV (see image below). Both are excellent and have not let me down over quite some time.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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13th August 2010, 10:57 AM #9
Japanese saws were developed for use on their (mostly) soft woods and the tooth set is optimised for that. Having said that, I've cut some very hard woods, like Inland Rosewood (supposedly one of the hardest woods there are), and got away with doing that by cutting very carefully. You can get a Japanese saw with a hardwood tooth set but they are not readily come by, and I don't expect they make a flush cut saw for hardwoods.
If it was me I would be sending that Nakaya back for a refund.
.....Stay sharp and stay safe!
Neil
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13th August 2010, 12:07 PM #10
Derek, it took a little searching but I found it here. For some reason it does not appear with the other flush cut saws.
I am thinking now that the blade is simply too thin and too hard for Jarrah. Probably very good for pine and other softwoods.
One thing I didn't mention before, and that is that the broken teeth are a serious problem to remove. I am glad I used a saw from the bin to complete the cuts. Then the WoodRiver block plane I used to smooth them down received some nasty scratches underneath and on the blade which will need a complete regrind and hone.
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13th August 2010, 01:17 PM #11
Had the same problem on Jarrah, I lost a couple of teeth before I realized what was going on as I thought I had knocked it against the vice.
Is it my eyesight or does the set on the teeth start at the blade of the saw and is parallel rather than angled like on a western saw, this may explain why they break off especially when curving the blade. But wait is it not a flush cut sawMike
"Working to a rigidly defined method of doubt and uncertainty"
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13th August 2010, 01:44 PM #12
Groggy I see the problem now, your saw was made by a subsidiary of a well known flat pack furniture manufacturer and you forgot to read the assembly instructions.
Mike
"Working to a rigidly defined method of doubt and uncertainty"
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13th August 2010, 02:12 PM #13
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14th August 2010, 12:21 PM #14
The teeth are broken up to the spine. I wonder if that might be part of the problem, assuming that the exertion put too much tension with the spine which caused stress and the teeth to break.
I've got a Dozuki of the same make, I've cut plenty of s/gum with it. So far I've broken 1 tooth, but I can see 3 other teeth which are showing stress (they're shiny) which I expect to break sometime too.
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14th August 2010, 12:38 PM #15
I am not sure Waldo, since it is a pull saw I tend to let the teeth pull themselves into the work-piece rather than force it. The blade is really too thin to try to impart too much force anyway.
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