Thread: Guideline on getting good Japanese tools!

Hello Saotoz and welcome, I for one have been waiting so long for a group to start up like this.

Hi Soatoz
thanks for the informative posts. I too have not bought Japanese because of my ignorance of what is good and what is garbage. So now I know that I know even less than I thought I did. If that makes any sense.
I have read your ebay page and some of groggy's review. I think your book ides is excellent and you'd have a ready market on this forum alone.
Well done and welcome.

Originally Posted by Caliban

Hi Soatoz
thanks for the informative posts. I too have not bought Japanese because of my ignorance of what is good and what is garbage. So now I know that I know even less than I thought I did. If that makes any sense.
I have read your ebay page and some of groggy's review. I think your book ides is excellent and you'd have a ready market on this forum alone.
Well done and welcome.

Whewy----!! I've finally opened my web site!!
I've been working on it day in day out for the past couple of months. There's much to add but basically it's looking good

The site must be very different because it has much collector's items, rare tools and best of all selection of natural stones. This is because this site is my hobby.

Thank you all to who's already contacted, bought from, visited me, and I'll be expecting to meet more J tools fans through this web site. And thanks to my partner who has taught me how to code HTML, and designed the basic structure of this site!!

Sorry So you may find some rust on the chisels as I have just drooled over them all.

Al

Welcome So... or in your language uerukamu, irasshai, settai, hougei, kangei depending I guess on the region of Japan you originate from?

I'll not bore you with my fanbloodytastic grasp of the Japanese lingo (its all in the above paragraph )

After speaking recently with a forum guru of things sharp and recieving quite reverently his advice regarding Japanese chisels I was on the verge of visiting one of the woodworking stores over here and getting some... then I had cause to pm with the forumite known as Shedhand or alternatively Mike and his words regarding yourself and your business have convinced me of your being THE MAN with regard securing some of the finest Japanese tools in Australia... if not the finest...

Problem for me is...
1) they confuse me I mean how does one KNOW who made the things and if they were any good at it?
2) Being monolinguistic or rather linguistically challenged I didnt understand 10 words of your above article.
3) Information is sadly very sparce regarding these tools and any assistance knowledge or information is like gold... well actually opals cause I like opals better than gold but hey thats just me Im like that

I reckon a book would be a brilliant idea!! with translations and photos showing the literal translation would be ideal for someone like myself.

I have also visited your site... and scared the cockatoos out of the pine tree down the back paddock with the initial SCREAM of terror at the prices... but then Im like that too... you havent met the missus mate she may be small but when it comes to parting with $$$ shes a flamin pocket rocket of terror!... but never you fear as the holder of and named owner of the humble CC I have my ways of covert operations of avoidance techniques of such brilliance she always sighs mightily and gives in... oh why I wrote that? well since I have NO IDEA the differences between on Japanese chisel and another I would need all my considerable powers of persuasion to convince myself to part with so much for one chisel as some of those are... so that above is there as a tempter you see

To tempt you to teach me why I should be looking to buy your fine chisels and planes... pretty cool eh?

saraba, wakare, owakare, miokuri, kokubetsu So... or farwell So

Damn my Japanese is rusty dusty and shocking!! well I also have no idea how to operate an Aussie to English dictionary so how was it ever going to work from Aussie to Japanese?

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Damn my Japanese is rusty dusty and shocking!! well I also have no idea how to operate an Aussie to English dictionary so how was it ever going to work from Aussie to Japanese?

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Al

Originally Posted by ozwinner

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Al

Is that so So can translate Dingos stuff?

Its so we can all translate Dingos lingo.

I think we need an Abrgidgelator for Dingos posts.

Al

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Welcome So... or in your language uerukamu, irasshai, settai, hougei, kangei depending I guess on the region of Japan you originate from?

Yes! Pure Japanese.

After speaking recently with a forum guru of things sharp and recieving quite reverently his advice regarding Japanese chisels I was on the verge of visiting one of the woodworking stores over here and getting some... then I had cause to pm with the forumite known as Shedhand or alternatively Mike and his words regarding yourself and your business have convinced me of your being THE MAN with regard securing some of the finest Japanese tools in Australia... if not the finest...

I'M THE MAN~~~

Problem for me is...

Okay let me answer one at a time!

1) they confuse me I mean how does one KNOW who made the things and if they were any good at it?

This is easy to answer. How does one KNOW for Western tools? The answer would probably be the same for Japanese tools.





One person who ordered Tasai chisels once asked me how he can be sure of it's authenticity and the answer was as follows.

but, is there any kind of guarantee as to the makers authenticity? I mean no offense" but better to be safe than sorry"

Yeah. Well I can't think of any way to "prove" the authenticity that would be convincing enough to you. I can tell you that there is no report for fake Tasai at all because chisels are too hard to make, Tasai chisels aren't expensive enough to gain any by making fakes unlike $4000 for set of 10 Ichihiro chisels, so all the fakes are plane blades, so there is no worry for that, but that's what "I" know so it wouldn't give you any comfort I suppose, right? And I can tell you that I am getting the tools from this certain wholesaler who is very close to Tasai family, but again this won't be no proof right? I could simply be lying. So, basically there is no way as far as I can think. If you can give me an idea of how to prove it's authenticity I'd be glad to give it to you as long as it's not too time consuming. But I don't think there's any way.

So, hows this? If the items were proven to be fakes (which will never happen (^^)), I will guarantee your money back. Again this is not gonna happen, but in case of return I'm gonna have to ask you to have it in it's original state (minor front side sharpening is okay) and pay for the shipping. But again that's not gonna happen so it's kind of silly to even discuss this. hahaha But like you said one can't be over prepared, right?

BTW, have you read my eBay description on how to get Japanese tools? There are so many fakes and faulty plane blades sold as genuine, and sometimes the seller (the shop) himself isn't aware of that. Because for instance a certain very famous plane blade blacksmith who charges over $1000 for his cheapest tools, he let his apprentice who was still in the training make his tools, while he goes out to Pachinko game centers and play, and only chisel or stamp the brand on and sign the box himself and sell it as genuine. No one can tell that it's fake unless this person is VERY familiar with this blacksmith's steel, so that he can tell that the steel is not forged as well by sharpening or planing thereby returning the tool. There are so many episode like this. If I tell you all the story, you'd be too frightened to buy anything. So, as I wrote in that article on How to get Japanese tools, there is only one way. Build trust slowly by buying small amount of tools at a time, and see the quality you get. Also you need to study as well, in order to be able to see the difference in quality.

So, at the moment I can only tell you this.

"Trsut me and get some tools from me. I'll promise you'll be satisfied with my tools."

===

2) Being monolinguistic or rather linguistically challenged I didnt understand 10 words of your above article.

Try refering to the glossary Groggy has stickied for me, and if that's still not good enough, you can ask me!

3) Information is sadly very sparce regarding these tools and any assistance knowledge or information is like gold...

Yeah, I was told by someone I should charge for the infos I'm giving, but nah I don't wanna do that.

Anyway, what you need is a book called "Japanese Woodworking Tools" by Odate-san. It will give you lots of info regarding J tools. And to train your eyes to tell which tools are good and which are not so good (this is VE~~~RY important), you can get "Dougu Mandala" by Muramatsu Teijirou. You can get both titles from YOU KNOW WHERE.

well actually opals cause I like opals better than gold but hey thats just me Im like that

So do I!

I reckon a book would be a brilliant idea!! with translations and photos showing the literal translation would be ideal for someone like myself.

Yeah, I'll get to it when I get the time. But there is something I have to do with Groggy, right mate? so it will have to wait for the time being.

I have also visited your site... and scared the cockatoos out of the pine tree down the back paddock with the initial SCREAM of terror at the prices...

Hahaha, I know!

but then Im like that too... you havent met the missus mate she may be small but when it comes to parting with $$$ shes a flamin pocket rocket of terror!... but never you fear as the holder of and named owner of the humble CC I have my ways of covert operations of avoidance techniques of such brilliance she always sighs mightily and gives in... oh why I wrote that? well since I have NO IDEA the differences between on Japanese chisel and another I would need all my considerable powers of persuasion to convince myself to part with so much for one chisel as some of those are... so that above is there as a tempter you see

Let me just explain briefly for now.

First of all expensive J tools are 100% handmade. Japanese making with hands.... If you know the commodity price in Japan, you should see that alone would boost the price so much.

Second of all, almost all J tools are laminated. More work. By laminating steel there are lots of benefit, but basically the edge will be much sharper yet much easier to sharpen.

So, J tools are work of an art itself rather than being just a tool. I've seen truely beautiful Western planes and when we talk about those tools, then the price isn't so different between the two right?

To tempt you to teach me why I should be looking to buy your fine chisels and planes... pretty cool eh?

Okay, let me know your preference when you decide to order.
Sheddy must have told you how we chose his chisels right?

I need to know what kind of wood you most frequently work with, and the kind of stones you have, to start with!

saraba, wakare, owakare, miokuri, kokubetsu So... or farwell So

doumo doumo, soreja~ matane~~~~

Originally Posted by ozwinner

Its so we can all translate Dingos lingo.

I think we need an Abrgidgelator for Dingos posts.

Al

All of us except for Soatoz. He seems to understand Dingo better than most of us. Perhaps Dingo speaks with Japanese accent.