Thread: Head gasket woes

Put a change over long motor in it.

If it has blown the head gasket through overheating, the rings will probably be shot too at that mileage.

Thanks, , are you saying put in another motor?

Couldn't they tell that the rings are shot through some sort of compression test?

Not really because if the gasket has gone it would show a low reading anyway.

They could tell what the bore is like when they get the head off and that may give them a clue as to what damage could have been done.

In my experience, when a motor is cooked it does not take long before the "unseen" things start giving problems.

, I don't know if you can answer this but relative to a head gasket replacement, is the changeover of a re-conditioned motor twice, three times the cost of a head gasket replacement?

Tiger - what is the value of the car - what is the value of the motor + installation etc.

maybe a second-hand one from a wreckers would be a cheaper alternative.

If it came out of a crashed car there is a good chance it was running well at the time it stopped - not likely to be much damage from the crash - sometimes the wreckers will fit as well.

Cheers

David

Hey Tiger,

I don't know how attached you are to the Car, but it is 20 years old. I would look at a few options, If the radiator was shot, and something else on the motor was shot, possibly the thermostat housing or Water pump, You said that a grand will fix the head gasket problem(?) I would assume that it has an alloy head?. I wouldn't throw a grand at it and hope its good. Throw that grand towards another one, you might get some money from the wreckers for the old bones, and there are always people selling in the trading post (or whatever your version is) or even local paper
Like Calm and have said, there could be underlying problems that will surface in the not too distant future.(more expense)

Just my 2c and a bit of experience

HazzaB

Thanks Dave and Hazza for your input into this. The radiator place who were responsible for causing this problem have just rang through to say that it will now cost approx $1700 to fix. They will put a new head on. Had a quote from Lubemobile, they will do it for $750 but not sure what exactly they will do for that money.

I changed the timing belt a few months ago and put new tyres on it as well. The radiator is new. Water pump was done at the same time as was the timing belt and thermostat. Radiator place re-did the thermostat as they said it wasn't done properly a few months ago so I have put a bit into of late. It is 20 years old but only done 170,000 km, am a bit attached to it but have to be realistic I guess.

Appreciate assistance on this as head gaskets, radiators etc. a little out of my depth.

Tiger i am a qualified Motor Mechanic - now called technician or what ever you like.

I agree with - if you do the head gasket it is almost assured that it will blow smoke. (rings stuffed)

When a motor gets hot it warps the head and that causes the head-gasket to blow. - you can machine the head replace the head gasket but the rings (which are metal) have still got hot and lost their tension so although it may start i can almost guarantee that it will blow smoke.

What i am trying to say is replacing the head-gasket may fix it but not too far down the track you have more expenses coming - where do you draw the line and say - i have overspent on this car time to replace.

cheers

david

Originally Posted by Calm

I agree with - if you do the head gasket it is almost assured that it will blow smoke. (rings stuffed)

So, Dave, these quotes have been made on the basis that the rings are ok, so what may happen is that they when they replace the head gasket they will see that the rings are stuffed and then I will get a phone call to say that there will be more costs?

Originally Posted by Tiger

So, Dave, these quotes have been made on the basis that the rings are ok, so what may happen is that they when they replace the head gasket they will see that the rings are stuffed and then I will get a phone call to say that there will be more costs?

there is no real way to know the damage to the rest of the motor until the head is repaired and the car started - then you have spent the $1000 and still need to spend more.

Will the car start now and what does it run like? If it wont start now then i think i wouldn't spend any-more on just a part engine rebuild - either a new/reco/second-hand motor is a better bet in the long run.

The decision you have to make is will the wrecker/scrap metal price plus the cost of repairs get you better car than you have.

cheers

Dave, the car is driveable now, it just lacks power and shakes more. There is also this surging action when the car is idle. Having said all that, I have looked around at second hand cars but not much value for a few thousand dollars. My current car is a station wagon which is really useful to haul timber and other things so I guess there is some emotional connection as it has been useful to carry equipment etc as well as timber.

Originally Posted by Tiger

Dave, the car is driveable now, it just lacks power and shakes more. There is also this surging action when the car is idle. Having said all that, I have looked around at second hand cars but not much value for a few thousand dollars. My current car is a station wagon which is really useful to haul timber and other things so I guess there is some emotional connection as it has been useful to carry equipment etc as well as timber.

Probably both due to it running on 3 or 2 1/2 cylinders. Try a can of Chemiweld or barsleak or similar - may patch it up till you make a decision.

If it starts then you should be able to get a cylinder presure test done (compression test) - could even do it yourself - guage from Supacheap would be about $20 - remove the spark plugs - better done cold - get someone to hold throttle flat and turn over on starter - hold guage in plug hole and check reading - if good ones are not above 120 to150 then motor is tired - if good ones are above 150 even up to 200 then likely head gasket will bring low ones up to near that level so motor maybe serviceable.

That might help you decide what to do.

If it doesn't blow smoke now then maybe it wont.

The radiator place mentioned something about water/coolant getting into a couple of cylinders because they were polished (rather than having carbon around it) so Dave I think you are on the money so thanks for all your help, decisions, decisions......

It is not uncommon for a failing head gasket to leak combustion gases into the cooling system while the engine is running. These gases displace water in the head and cause overheating and head distortion. They also overpressurise the cooling system weakeng the hoses, radiator, pump seals, heater core and valves etc.

It is quite likely that the engine had a failing gasket for some time, which contributed to the original radiator problem, plus being the cause of the recent water loss, be it at the pump, hoses or some other fitting.

It is possible to conduct a simple/cheap test on the system at the first sign of overheating with a 'headcheck' or similar device. This is a clear tube with fittings and an exraction device at the top which is installed in place of the radiator/header tank cap. A liquid indicator chemical is placed in the clear tube, and the engine run at idle for a couple of minutes. The extractor device is then activated to draw the gas at the top of the cooling system through the device to the atmosphere. If there is combustion gases in this, the colour of the liquid indicator in the tube will change indicating a leaking head gasket or head perferation from the combustion chamber to the water jacket.

If the radiator place did such a check when the car was first taken to them, they should have been able to advise of the problem before it became critical.

Given that the problem has occured, at this point I would be inclined to a decent overhaul or a replacement motor. In addition to needing to replace the head and piston rings, all of the bearings and seals throughout the motor will have been stressed, and the piston skirts may be damaged by continuing to run the car when overheating became obvious. The only truly safe way to verify the extent of the damage is a complete strip down. A good second hand motor, or a reco motor is the cheap way to go if you are confident that the rest of the car is worth the effort, but you need to be able to write off the cost over another few years of use.

Definitely replace all cooling system hoses etc along the way, as they will have started to harden internally and will be a failure waiting to happen.