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  1. #16
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    Jun 2005
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    Helensburgh
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    Quote Originally Posted by artful bodger View Post
    I think it is helping them, the marketing department obviously does too. Sure the old ones were leaky and unreliable but most of the competition at the time was too. Until the Honda 750 four was released. That bike was/is known as the game-changer.
    Although the new Triumphs do not have a direct link to the old ones (a bit like the new Indians) they still have the same name and it appears they are happy to draw on the old heritage.
    Ah! 750 4's. I was chasing one of those just after they came out and we had been at it for quite a while, they handled like a bucket of licorice and the Cortina was a match for it around corners so he couldn't get away because the road was all corners and rough as buggery. All of a sudden he came to a complete stop with a bit of flame coming out of the pipe so I pulled over and we had a look to see what the problem was. It turned out they had a bit of a reputation for throwing rods and this one had done just that so he wheeled it casually into the bush and I gave him a lift home. There is no way I would have left it there but he had no problems with it.
    CHRIS

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    Tasmaniac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Ah! 750 4's. I was chasing one of those just after they came out and we had been at it for quite a while, they handled like a bucket of licorice and the Cortina was a match for it around corners so he couldn't get away because the road was all corners and rough as buggery. All of a sudden he came to a complete stop with a bit of flame coming out of the pipe so I pulled over and we had a look to see what the problem was. It turned out they had a bit of a reputation for throwing rods and this one had done just that so he wheeled it casually into the bush and I gave him a lift home. There is no way I would have left it there but he had no problems with it.
    That is pretty harsh Chris, I happen to think they handle quite well. The disc brake sure is not up to modern standards but when they came out it was the "bees knees".
    Here is a picture of my 1970 KO.
    DSCF5469.jpg

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Helensburgh
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    I don't think any early Japanese bike handled really well. A mate had a Kwaka 1000 and I swear it went around corners in two bites with a hinge in the middle.
    CHRIS

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia.
    Posts
    1,268

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    The original 1969 CB 750 Honda was a very good handling bike. Running a twin tubed cradle frame, it was up with the latest technology. One has to remember that this thing, straight off the showroom floor, pretty much went faster than many British twin cylinder racing bikes. Stopping quickly, was hampered slightly by the fact the rider was usually going faster than anyone else on the track or street. Tyre technology wasn’t quite up with it back then, as well.

    Many people think the Honda was the first production bike with a disc brake on the front as standard. Not quite correct, to the best of my knowledge, the Lambretta 200GP scooter that came out in 1968 was the first production motorcycle with a front disc brake as standard. I know this as I followed a girl on one round Tasmania in the summer of 1968/69 with her mother on the back. Her scooter was a bit slow off the mark, scraped on corners due to the load and her spirited riding, but my goodness, that thing could stop; we ended up living together for some years…

    If you ever had the good fortune to ride a 1969 Kawasaki H1, usually referred to as the Mach III, then you would know what bad handling was. As for acceleration, once you hit 6000 rpm, one had better be wearing tight jocks, otherwise you could leave some important bits behind.

    Back to the Honda, overall, it was a stupendous machine. I remember riding alongside one in Melbourne in 1969 and wondering how I could afford to buy one. It just did everything so well, plus the sound was pretty good. Then I rode one, instant lust in the dust.

    The sound emanating from the exhausts on the BSA and Triumph 750 triples was about the best in the business; a muted and relaxed growl.

    Pretty much nothing bettered them sound wise, until one heard Friedl Münch’s, Münch Mammoth. Which was based on the NSU automobile engine.

    I had the privilege of riding a Münch 1200 TTS a couple of times, there has never been anything I have ridden since that could compare. The power and sheer size of the machine was in a completely different class to anything else available.

    Regarding handling of Japanese motorcycles, one has to remember that they were pretty much at the cutting edge of power, speed and (eventually) stopping, in motorcycle land.

    My Suzuki 500 Cobra was a beast, especially after the expansion chambers (exhaust) on either side had been worn a bit by scraping away some of the excess metal. It was pretty effective against 650 British stuff and hardly gave away anything in top speed. Having a rather long wheelbase gave it very good handling at or near top speed. The front drum brake though was really interesting, it retarded the bike in a manner that forced one to learn how to go round corners fast. Great way to teach fast cornering technique; I’m serious about that aspect.

    The Suzuki certainly went faster and had better handling over my 1966 CB450 4 speed Honda, however it sucked fuel quicker than a dragster at full bore; almost…

    The Kawasaki Z1 903cc was the next game changer, although not as big a game changer as the original Honda CB750 was, which was a definite game changer. It took a while to realise why the odd capacity of 903cc down here in Australia. In various parts of the world anything over 900cc was marketed as a 1000cc machine, hence the apparent reasoning of the odd engine capacity. Pops Yoshimura who moved to the USA from Japan, started fiddling with the Z1 Kawasaki with some very fast and very reliable machines. I had the pleasure of riding a Pops Z1 machine which had a BMEP higher than any other Z1 around at the time, this was in 1975/6. It just oozed speed.

    Once again, with the introduction of the Kawasaki Z1, many people thought it didn’t handle too well; it did. However, the fact it was faster than anything else gave one the impression it didn’t as one was approaching corners faster than pretty much anything else on the road, or racetrack. The acceleration of the Z1 was pretty unbelievable, out of the box and straight onto a drag strip, they cleaned up most other bikes. Once they were warmed up, they were in another world.

    With the introduction of the Kawasaki inline fours, an aftermarket accessory boon in lighter and louder, supposedly better exhaust systems, hit the big time. Almost anyone worth anything with a Japanese inline four, hankered after a “Fourintowunzon” exhaust system. A very good friend started an aftermarket exhaust business for that exact market; he made a motza out of it.

    Better stop before I get into BMW’s.

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,205

    Default Still 2 dead ones in the rafters.

    Had a few myself.
    Started on a Honda Dream in 63, then in roughly this order over the next 15 years.
    Hustler, Saint,SS, Thunderbolt, Metralla, Kitted Metralla, CT125, XL250, TT500, MX125, YZ125, RM370, Husky 125, XL175, 350MAC.
    Still have the Mac and the Xl175.
    H.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Oz
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    615

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    The first 750 4s weren't the best handling bikes around, then again as already stated none of the Jap bikes were. What the 750 had was reliabliity, an electric start that worked, didn't leave an oil slick behind, it was smooth and handled well if not pushed. I thought they were rubbish on my first ride of one, but then again I was a died in the wool Triumph/BSA nut. I had a mid 70s Suzuki GS750 at one stage, it was far better than than Honda's effort. Jap bikes suffered from bad to fair handling for decades, remember the H1. I had a ride on one of these - once, couldn't get off it quick enough: It was often said they felt like they had a hinge in the middle, to me it felt like the back end and front end end simply weren't connected, a hinge would have been an improvement. I bought a Bol D'or in the early 80s, really no difference from the early 750s. I had an 82 Bonneville also at the same time, chalk and cheese as far as handling was concerned, also chalk and cheese on the power front, only in reverse. Much preferred the Bonny.

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