View Poll Results: HOW SHOULD THE INTERNATIONAL FREIGHT BE APPORTIONED?
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5th Mar 2011, 02:23 PM #31
Hmm, well I'm interested, and this is a bit off topic so feel free to ignore ...
1. Carbatec's price on a 5 piece set of maxicut forstners (strictly speaking saw-tooth bits) is $169. FF's spreadsheet price $152.
2. The wide bit drilling that I do is all hidden and mostly in hard timbers, so I like TCT Forstner bits; they don't do clean but they do last. So C/tec TCT at 35mm for example is $38 and FF Colt is $46. At 22mm C/tec TCT is $35 while FF Colt is $31.
Of course the TCTs are hard to sharpen, but M2 Colts will need diamond honing too before too long on some of our timbers. And as Brendan Stemp said in another thread, you're gunna have to sharpen at some point so take this into account when thinking about costs.
So all that aside, what's the benefit in the Maxicut saw-tooth bit geometry?
Last edited by rsser; 5th Mar 2011 at 02:35 PM. Reason: changes for clarificationCheers, Ern
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5th Mar 2011, 02:47 PM #32
Hi Ern -
The bit geometry means chips, not spiral shavings, leading to:
1. Less heat, so longer life & less sharpening
2. Quicker cutting with less (or no) need to reverse to clear the hole
3. Cleaner cuts
This is from Chris Schwarz at PopWood Mag
"The genius in these bits is that the cutting lip is designed to bust up the chips as they are severed. So you don't get big disc-shaped chips, which clog the works. Instead you get ribbon-like shavings, which eject easily, even from deep holes. We tried to overfeed this bit, and we failed. Bravo to Colt."
Also, the geomerty designed to:
1. make it eassy to sharpen yourself
2. Positively lock shank into chuck
3. Easy use of extensions & MT adaptors
This video is instructive:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1zOGmuMM1I"]YouTube - COLT MaxiCut Forstner Bit System[/ame]
And here is the Popular Woodwork video:
5th Mar 2011, 02:58 PM #33
And this is my expression of interest
5th Mar 2011, 03:32 PM #34
The Rotastop spiel I'll accept. I've had shanks on others fixed with 2 grub screws that with wider diameters have slipped.
Easier sharpening access with the Maxicuts would be a plus, cp other geometries.
As for 'disc' swarf, yes I've seen it occasionally but never on our hardwoods with end-grain drilling on the lathe.
OK, I'll bite, just for interest. FF, put me down for $155 worth.Cheers, Ern
5th Mar 2011, 03:54 PM #35
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Ern, I have a few of the rotastop Maxi-cuts, as does DJ. I will be buying them as I need them in future unless I need a one-off cheapy that may need to find a nail.
I am sold on these, they work and stay a lot cooler in use. They also do not seem to have the swarf jamming issues of my other forstners in deeper holes. If you are over this way I'd be happy to show you the difference to a normal or saw tooth forstner.
5th Mar 2011, 03:58 PM #36
Bloody Hell this is a bit confusing Ern. The CT 2010 paper Dog shows the COLT-10801535 as no less than $299 (and yes I did read the "Heads Up Epic price drop" thread, but no mention of Colt). U R right about the $169 (Brisbane), Sydney shows $189, so I presume you checked Melb store, yes I just did $169.
I don't want to trawl through all the TCT bits so perhaps you could give a Dog #.
Ern, it's not off-topic at all. This is the info we all need - we're not going to fag around with imports if we can buy here for similar.
Mr Brush can give you a run down on how ridiculously easy the Colt HSS Forstners are to sharpen.
For your work where you want TCT 35mm, have a look at the VHW-MAXI Cut (Carbide Plate Hinge Borers). It's line 79 in the sheet, and there's no less than 5 to choose from: 3 lengths, 2 of them with LH or RH. $72-75. If your German is any good then go to About Our Company - Colt The problem with it is that you can't copy & paste the descriptions into Google translate (well I can't anyway). If anyone knows how to solve this problem then please cough up the info. Failing that I can email Juergen to get the EN brochures that he didn't send before.
I'll put up a separate thread on pricing. I doubt if you'll miss it.
5th Mar 2011, 04:01 PM #37
5th Mar 2011, 04:19 PM #38
Thanks FF. You're going into this thoroughly and that's appreciated.
So regarding comparators, all I did was search on the C/tec Melb site for forstner bits:
Search Results : CARBA-TEC
Thanks Groggy. Yes, cool running would be a major advantage. Boring napkin rings in desert timbers has generated enough heat to discolour them.
But I still wonder whether it's the sharpness of the cutting edges or the geometry in the first runs with the Colt bits that you and DJ have experienced.Cheers, Ern
5th Mar 2011, 04:46 PM #39
Apparently this needs to be loud & clear
1. No commitment to any seller at this stage
2. Other sellers sites show cheaper on some products than Colt site (and vice versa). Manufacturers always do this - if they are going to retail, it has to be worth their while. Remember they want to move pallets, not envelopes. Furthermore, they don't want to upset their retailers around the globe do they?
3. Colt direct prices are just a starting point for reference. It's all I have to go on, ATM. Currently we're on around 3000 Euros. I'd be surprised if Colt can't do better on the list prices, but it may transpire that a Group Purchase is not what they would wish to do. In that case it's a simple matter of sussing out a USA retailer who is prepared to offer a reasonable discount for a bulk purchase. Again, it would be preferable to deal with Colt directly for stock availability reasons (apart from prices).
4. If you drill holes in wood with twist drills or BPs then do yourself an enormous favour and get some Colt 5 Star BPs (not Twinlands...they're probably great but the 5 Stars are sensational). In (private) discussion with a well known Festool dealer, he suspects that the 5 Stars may even be better than the Zobos (Festool) Brad points in the area if chip ejection. Anyone else who has used 5 Star or Zobo BPs please say what you think about them. Zobos are more than double the price, as I recall.
5. If you use countersinks or C/S+drill combos then look at this thread in particular posts #3 and #10
6. Just to clarify, I seek no personal reward in terms of even better prices for myself (on the sly if you like). I just want us all to have the best we can get for an internationally competitive price.
7. SEE 1. above
Righto then chaps, as you were!
Last edited by FenceFurniture; 5th Mar 2011 at 06:55 PM. Reason: It was a bit too loud and clear
5th Mar 2011, 04:55 PM #40
5th Mar 2011, 09:14 PM #41
Where are you all getting the prices?Regards Ben
5th Mar 2011, 10:20 PM #42
Attachments in post #1 Bupton (the spreadsheets)
6th Mar 2011, 11:35 AM #43
I haff found a utuube video off ze colt fife ztar braad point bits.
You vill vatch dis video and you vill be impressed....we haff vays of making you impressed.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPGG9wCMLoc]YouTube - Infinity Cutting Tools - 7-Pc. COLT Five Star Brad Point Drill Set[/ame]
I am no vay affiliated vis dis company
6th Mar 2011, 12:01 PM #44
I've got the pen set - different flute design - I like them, except the 7 mm is too long and flexes a bit
just got some forstner style - haven't used them yet
I'm pretty well set up for what I want/need at the moment - but I'm sure I'll be needing a couple of odd sizes not covered in the forstners I have
so a tentative $100 mayberegards
veni, vidi, tornavi
Without wood it's just ...
6th Mar 2011, 12:07 PM #45
Sorry - left out the estimate - put me down for $450 at this stage
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