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  1. #31
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    Apr 2006
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    Thanks for the tip Mick.

    Will check them out next time I need a knife.

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  3. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    inner city sydney
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    As much as I use this site for musing about woodwork, I use cooking for engineers for any culinary curiosity; it has a decent review/test of some knives along with sharpening articles etc:

    Chef's Knives Rated - Equipment & Gear - Cooking For Engineers

    After reading the test I was going to slowly build up a collection of globals to replace my vintage wooden handled mundials (cleavers), wilkinsons (dough/bread/filleting) and felix solingen chefs knife but since have started looking into japanese chef knifes after becoming so impressed with their saws...

    I must say that the small mundial cleaver has been very reliable- great heavy weight for its compactness.

  4. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shreveport, LA
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    1

    Default Mundial

    Hey guys, if you are still trying to analyze the cutlery cracks, I think I might have some info for you. I was researching cutlery steel and remembered Mundial uses 3cr13 steel. I stumbled across a link that explains about cracks during quenching. Check this out, it could be the cause of the problem.
    3Cr13 Stainless Steel be Prevent Quenching Cracks's Measure|Han Chao(WuXi) Special Steel Co,. Ltd

    Oh, the only Mundial product I own is the Elegance series cleaver. It takes one strike to half a whole chicken and has never failed to cut through anything I've hit with it. It still has the original, very sharp, factory edge.


  5. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    McBride BC Canada
    Posts
    3,543

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    Those broken knives. What a load of baloney they are!
    I'd try to get a real tang really welded on, some cutlery rivets
    and some walnut and make my own knife scales.

    I gave up trying to do every kitchen prep task with a single blade.
    One cleaver for soft things (20 degrees included bevel) and a thicker bone
    cleaver at 30 degrees.
    I mention that because I believe that maintaining the edge is a skill worth learning.
    In my kitchen, water stones are the way I go.

    The harder the steel, the longer it takes but the edge has to have enough metal
    behind it or you risk chipping.

    I had a drawer full of the mystery brand butcher (6) & boning (8) knives.
    I gave them all to GoodWill/Family Services.
    Now, my SIL is giving me Porsche knives!
    I think they're overpriced for their edge-holding ability.
    But, they are nice to work with and the one piece design is not slippery, even when wet.

    For the next few months, all I really need is a Inuit Snow Knife.

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Redland Bay, QLD
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    13

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    Interesting thread.

    Generally speaking, Victorinox offers the best knife for the money. They are not the best by any means, bot for the average kitchen knife user they are fine. Mundial is not comparable in quality - forged or not (most Victorinox is stamped).

    Theoretically, forged is better than stamped, but there are many other attributes that count in knife quality. Type of steel(s), design, tempering process, etc.

    Ask your butcher what brand he uses. Typically they use Victorinox (Switzerland), Frost (Sweden), Dexter Russell (USA), F. Dick (Germany, also the premier manufacturer of "sharpening" steels) and some no-name German products.

    The best manufactured kitchen knives come from Japan (I like Kai). I think that Frost of Sweden is a near second.

    Use a cleaver to cut bones. Good kitchen knives have a hard edge. They are cutters, not choppers. I saw a picture recently of a Bob Kramer Damascus chef's knife with a scallop in the edge caused by chopping a turkey bone. $15,000+ down the tubes.

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney,Australia
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    3,157

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    A friends SPFX company got a job that involved dropping several hundred 'cooks knives' onto a roadway point first from around 7 metres. About 1/3 of the knives broke near the bolster, and a bit less than a third lost the tip (not surprising). Interestingly about 1/3 of the knives survived the drop undamaged. He got to keep the broken knives and he reground the ones with a broken tip to give as presents to family & friends (the really broken ones went to the scrap dealers).

  8. #37
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    Aug 2007
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    Redland Bay, QLD
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsrlee View Post
    A friends SPFX company got a job that involved dropping several hundred 'cooks knives' onto a roadway point first from around 7 metres. About 1/3 of the knives broke near the bolster, and a bit less than a third lost the tip (not surprising). Interestingly about 1/3 of the knives survived the drop undamaged.
    Pretty extreme test.... which proves? From a practical standpoint - nothing. I don't own any ceramic knives, but I understand that if you drop one, especially on a tile floor, it's a goner. "Kitchen" knives are made from such a variety of steels for such a variety of purposes, it's hardly surprising that many failed at the weak point.

    Back to the original question - Excellent of Rubbish? I'll vote for rubbish.

  9. #38
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    Nov 2012
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    Thornbury
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    I wonder if some you guys were just unlucky or if i was lucky?
    I bought some Mundials about 20 yr ago, 2 x 10" Chef, boning and utility and they are still going strong.
    I even took a chip out of my caeser stone bench with one of the Chefs without damage. But i also have never dropped them either.

    Maybe the quality has gone down hill since i purchased mine (most likely) but they have held up well with sharpening on a stone every month or so and steeled every time they are used (before and after).

    I also have a few CS japanese knives that i picked up in Kyoto - great edge - but they always need sharpening/finishing ( only on a 2k or 8k stone) and you have to keep wiping them constantly or they colour up.

    ( I always wondered why the chefs in the Iron Chef kept wiping the knife each time they used it - guess i found out.)

    If i was buying a knife today - for general purpose and value - Victorinox.
    If i was buying for me - maybe a holiday back to to Japan
    Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can? -- Sun Tzu

  10. #39
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    Jan 2002
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    Melbourne, Aus.
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    Agree that a drop-test is not of much relevance to domestic users. I don't buy a brand with that in mind.

    We have a bunch of Mundials, along with Wusthofs and Japanese knives and I have no complaint. Quality = fitness for purpose. The Mundial flex blade boning knife is a gem (but a sod to sharpen). My partner can bone a whole duck with it, leaving the body in tact for stuffing and roasting. I use it to skin and joint chicken Marylands.

    Maybe the older Mundials were better. Dunno. Do know that steel batches can vary, and that heat-treating is more of an art than a science, so YMMV.
    Cheers, Ern

  11. #40
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    Scribbly Gum is online now When the student is ready, the Teacher will appear
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    This thread is still going ............. I started this ..can't remember when.
    Anyhoo we must have drawn the short straw - the Mundials that we have, have been a big disappointment, and to replace the one that broke I bought a Sabattier. Now it was not only not stainless, it was extremely stain-ful - to the point of rusting on the bench in front of us while preparing the meal.
    I know that this will cause howls of laughter or possible disdain, but we have replaced them with a truly excellent set of stainless knives branded Wiltshire. These were a Big-W special of $45 for a set of 5. Take and keep a very nice edge and are wife proof.
    Hahaha
    Cheers
    SG
    .... some old things are lovely
    Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them ........................D.H. Lawrence
    https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/

  12. #41
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    Bingo SG.

    I just bought a Wiltshire stay-sharp for a bungalow I sometimes stay in.

    Horses for courses.
    Cheers, Ern

  13. #42
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    Sep 2012
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    Sydney
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    If you appreciate a good knife, try SHUN big bucks but you won't be sorry, there awesome have 5 & love them all....

  14. #43
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    Redland Bay, QLD
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    Shun (pronounced shoon) are excellent knives. They are made by Kai in Seki City, Japan - Japan's cutler center. Kai puts out a number of lines of cutlery under many names, including Kershaw (Portland, Oregon). Some of their knives are made there in Oregon. My wife uses a left-handed Shun Santoku which she really likes. I use a Kershaw 9900 series Santoku (among many others) which I like. It is their least expensive kitchen line. I doubt they are available in Australia. Kai Shun knives can be outrageously expensive. Shop around, particularly on line. They are made with a VG-10 core clad in multiple layers of another stainless steel. If you toss your knives into a drawer, put them in a dishwasher, etc., they aren't for you. These are at the pinnacle of manufactured cutting tools and will last for generations if they are properly cared for.

  15. #44
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    Sep 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pops View Post
    Hi SG,

    Yep, Ern is on the money there, discolouration is very hard to avoid and yes carbon steel is prone to rust marks if not meticulous about cleaning and drying after use, (in my experience anyway).

    I have several Sabatiers, a range of makes/models and ages, mostly carbon steel. If you have one of the better Sabatiers, (quality varies somewhat) and not a Chinese copy then you should find it worthy of the extra care needed, (like any carbon steel knife blade). I love my CS Sabatier. It rings when the tip swipes the chopping board, nice.

    Holds an edge well and is a much better balance, for my hand anyway. You can feel what you are cutting better compared to the heavier blades, like Mundial can be, if that makes sense.

    Some chefs prefer carbon steel Sabatiers too, particularly the old ones, made in France. I did a lot of research on these knives but can't remember most of it now, memory is going I think.

    Don't put your Sabatier in the dishwasher and clean it after each use and it should be OK. I have never heard of a genuine Sabatier breaking. You have made a good choice there I reckon SG.

    Can you tell us what model you have, what is printed on the blade, out of interest?

    Cheers
    Pops
    I have to agree Pops.
    I bought an original Sabatier 14" knife in 1978 in the third year of my apprenticeship and it is the most comfortable knife I have ever used and still going strong. I use it for food prep in the kitchen and apart from a couple of no-name paring knives and a general purpose 9" knife I find I don't need anything else. I've used some of the other better known brands mentioned in this thread ( I've worked in a few commercial kitchens as a general kitchen hand/food prep/dishwasher etc over the years ) and find them OK but not stand-outs compared to my Sabatier. Yes, it is grey from use ( just like all my woodwork tools ) but I've never oiled it as all it takes is a simple wipe down with a dry cloth after a quick rinse.

    Stewie

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