Thread: Experiments with the BESS system

BESS testing results 102617a_Page_07.jpg

BESS testing results 102617a_Page_08.jpg

BESS testing results 102617a_Page_09.jpg

BESS testing results 102617a_Page_10.jpg

BESS testing results 102617a_Page_11.jpg

BESS testing results 102617a_Page_12.jpg

stephen-colbert-popcorn-gif.jpg

Even so, but for a sharpening thread this one has been surprisingly civil.

I feel uncomfortable having to explain difference between the edge and cut to this no doubt experienced audience.
I can put the same sharp hair-splitting edge on blades from 12 to 50 included angle, but will they cut the same?
Don't you see the difference between sharpness testers using line vs sheet test media?

BESS edge sharpness tester has no bearing on the blade angle and profile, because it is an edge tester, and uses a line test media.
Cutting performance evaluation testers, like CATRA's use sheet test media.

BESS edge sharpness tester tells you how sharp the edge is, which reflects only the 1st phase of cutting - penetration.
CATRA performance evaluation tester also tells you how effective the blade profile is.

Edge sharpness testers cannot be used to compare cutting performance of blades of varying geometry.
Edge sharpness testers can be used to compare performance of blades of similar geometry but made of different steel.

Primary purpose of edge sharpness testers is to help improve sharpening process - seems enough of a reason to me to have the BESS sharpness tester discussed here.
But you tell me I can't.
You prefer to discuss Rob's home-made analogue built on the same principle, only using a scales that cost twice the price of the BESS tester.
I rather opt out

I'd much rather see a gallery of scanning electron microscope (SEM) photomicrographs to demonstrate, visually,
what this comparative testing looks like. Show me how one is better than another.
I see no concern here for wood sample variations in anatomy, not even ring counts and early wood vs late wood.

It's been done once, by the National Science and Engineering Research Council of Canada.
The SEM images put paid to a lot of dogma in sharpening steels. You get to see the edges.
Show us.

Originally Posted by KnifeGrinders

I feel uncomfortable having to explain difference between the edge and cut to this no doubt experienced audience.
I can put the same sharp hair-splitting edge on blades from 12 to 50 included angle, but will they cut the same?
Don't you see the difference between sharpness testers using line vs sheet test media?

BESS edge sharpness tester has no bearing on the blade angle and profile, because it is an edge tester, and uses a line test media.
Cutting performance evaluation testers, like CATRA's use sheet test media.

BESS edge sharpness tester tells you how sharp the edge is, which reflects only the 1st phase of cutting - penetration.
CATRA performance evaluation tester also tells you how effective the blade profile is.

Edge sharpness testers cannot be used to compare cutting performance of blades of varying geometry.
Edge sharpness testers can be used to compare performance of blades of similar geometry but made of different steel.

Primary purpose of edge sharpness testers is to help improve sharpening process - seems enough of a reason to me to have the BESS sharpness tester discussed here.

I understand the difference, I'm just trying to understand how it would be applicable to me... As someone who is completely new to woodworking, and has no experience in sharpening blades, i'd expect to be pretty much bang on the target market for such a product... but i can't see how it would add value to me... if i'm completely off base with my logic and this product wouldn't be targeting someone like me, fair enough, i'll stop asking questions... but if I am, please read on...

If i want to sharpen a chisel to the point where it cuts what i need it to cut, I will sharpen it... I'm trying to see the value of getting it to 0.5 of a BESS Micron or whatever when it has no baring on cutting performance just "How sharp the edge is".

Say for example i sharpen the chisel and measure it on the BESS scale, and it says 0.5 (sorry i'm using random numbers as i'm unfamiliar with the scale), and it cuts the timber like butter... then i need to sharpen it again and its 1.5 on the scale but still cuts the timber like butter, where is the value in knowing the BESS of the chisel?

If it can't be used as a means for testing cutting performance, why would i use it?

Others on here are concerned with the data on how it works, measures etc... I'd only be interested in the data when i can understand the value of the scale in a real world, home workshop environment.. that's all i'd be using it in...

I think this thread has pretty much run its' course bit before closing it.....

For some 50 odd years I have sharpening most edged tools. Carving tools (chisels, gouges and knives, also speciality tools long bent and reverse bent gouges, chisels and skews, scorp and big Tyrolean carving tools). Turning tools (skew chisels, gouges of various shapes and sizes and a number of specialist tools). Chefs' knives (boning, paring, carving, butchers, meat cleaver, utility, etc). General woodworking tools: (Plane blades, Stanly 57 and 45 blades, spokeshave, molding planes, draw-knife, adze, regular axe and broad axe)

I'm sure I've probably missed something, but one thing I'm definitely sure of I have never missed, needed or wanted something to tell me how sharp or otherwise my tools were.

When they're sharp they cut when they aren't they tear or won't cut.

I usually stay out of these threads but, wow any woodworker worth his or her salt knows if their tools are sharp and most wouldn't even give a second thought to some of the stuff discussed in this thread or the other one started by KnifeGrinders.

Best post in both threads is 2 above this one (post #47 by Rob Streeper).

Personally I'm hard pressed to see any practical use or benefit for woodworkers in using a sharpness tester. Other than the hairs on your arm.

Speaking from my heart and for the bulk of forum members I say: Sharpen your tools, go use them and run from this thread as far and fast as you can. A sharp tool will make a plane, chisel, gouge, etc sing. Get out into your shed and listen to their music.
How on earth did they ever make fine furniture or magnificent carvings in the dark old days before there was a sharpness tester.

Cheers - Neil