Thread: Help/Guide Feedback on Finishing Stones (10000 plus)

10,000! Are you trying to split atoms?

My finest stone is 5000. I gave up on the leather strop and green crayon years ago. I use 1000, 2000 and 5000. Full width transparent shavings. I would argue that there would be very little, if any, perceivable benefit in using those higher grits, and any benefit there is would be gone within a couple of swipes across a bit of Australian hardwood.

The sole reason I have a Shapton 12000 is because I like shiny things
I used to have a King 6000 and that was plenty sharp.
I challenge anyone to demonstrate that there's any meaningful difference in surface finish (on the timber, I know the steel will have a better finish) from an 8000 to a 10000+, especially if you're stropping it anyway.

I enjoy the process of sharpening and have a variety of stones (too many). The final grit I use is decided by the item being sharpened. If I am sharpening a high quality japanese kitchen knife like a Shun I will go to 10000 or 12000 grit as the owner likes the shiney edge and the paper slicing trick (and that is all it is ,a trick) it does not indicate the cutting performance of the knife. It also does not improve the cutting performance of the knife by going beyound the 6000 to 8000 grit. I believe that the micro serations left by a 3000 to 5000 grit stone actually allow better cutting of certian fruits like tomatoes and for general kitche use. I have had a 12000 grit finished blade that had trouble starting the cut on a ripe tomato as ithe edge was just too smooth.
A plane blade for a smoother or a jointer and paring chisels,I will go to 8000 grit, a jack plane or a fore plane and ordinary bench chisels I stop at 5000 grit. even less for a mortise chisel. You sharpen to make a tool perform a function. You could sharpen everything to 30000 grit with no real benifit except to support your OCD.

You sharpen to make a tool perform a function

Exactly! And the quicker it's done, the quicker you can get back to what you were doing.

I think some people treat sharpening as a hobby in it's own right. Nothing wrong with that but I think it's a bit like collecting tools and not using them. It's peripheral to the main event for me.

yes the OCD in me does come out

My main reason for going so high is not the bevel side of any tool but the back (Back only).

Apart for the shiny aspect, I prefer the back of any of my blades/chisel to be highly polished

As for the bevelled edge, I agree that depending on what I have planned will depend on whether I go any higher then 6000 (Which I doubt)

Hence I am replacing all the major sharpening work (1200 grit and down) with the Trend Diamond plate combo 300/1000 and then finishing on either 4000 or 6000 grit

The Sigma was an idea in my mind for the backs.

Just like tools, sometimes I dont really need them - just nice to have - just in case

Well just like a lot of the hand skills in OZ, sharpening is a skill that is not so common any more.
Maybe you should pick up some of the fine hone stones! Your in a position to know the difference and you will probably inspire someone else down the line to have a go!

I agree some people see the sharpening process as a hobby in it's own right. It ain't a bad one to pick! The OCD traits can present though if your not careful!

I can't say I have the time anymore (for the moment anyway). I want super sharp and properly stropped as fast as I can get it now.

Having said that, I have some stones and other tools put aside for when I do have the time in another 30yrs. I have met too many oldies that have said 'I wish I bought the tools while I was still working'.

I now use only ezelap diamond stones and power strop with green chrome. Honestly, I feel it's almost every bit as sharp as water stones up to 8000 with a hand strop finish.
The difference is 20mins stuffing around with water stones and about 2mins with diamond plates and a power strop.
The only slower part of the system is I hand strop the back of chisels..that only takes an extra min or so.

Why does it take 20 minutes with waterstones? Believe me, if it took that long to put an edge on a blade I'd have given up long ago. Once I have everything out of the cupboard on the bench, it takes me about 30 seconds to put the blade in the jig (I prefer a jig ). Then work it probably 30 strokes on each stone. Even at 1 stoke per second, which is slow, that's 90 seconds to run through all three stones. A quick lap on the back and it's back in the plane and making shavings.

About once a month I flatten the stones with sandpaper. It's like having a new stone. It takes about 10 minutes max.

There seems to be this perception that waterstones are fiddly and messy. I am the laziest and most impatient person you have ever met. This is a very bad combination for things that are painstaking.

Maybe it depends on the setup? It takes me far longer than 90 seconds to sharpen an edge using water stones!
Actually, 90seconds is faster than what I can do with diamond stones and a power strop! You must be grease lightning with it mate! And I thought I was fast!

By the time I have pulled everything out, soaked the stones, washed and wiped between grits, dried and stropped the tool and packed the system down again I reckon it takes me a good 20mins! The actual sharpening process is fairly quick but everything around it takes me time.
If they were used regularly, I'm sure I could speed it up some but I don't think I could get it done at that speed!
I still use that system for anything to do with fine joinery but that's been a while for me now. I'm too busy in the workshop for making furniture at the moment. The other systems are much quicker for me and cover a lot more tooling.

I didn't include the time it takes to take the blade out and load it in the jig etc. I count to 30 roughly in my head on each stone. I have three, so that's where I got the 90 seconds, I haven't actually timed myself.

My water stones live in a box of water. I don't know why people let them dry out, there is no need for it. They are permanently soaking. I just top the water up every now and then and once in a while I rinse the box out because it gets a bit mucky.

So when I am working, I take the box out of the drawer where it lives. It's made from polystyrene foam - was an airline food container. The lid has a lip around the inside. I turn it upside down and sit the stones on the lid side by side. The lip contains the mess. It sits on the bench and doesn't go back in the drawer until the end of the day. I have the Veritas jig sitting there too. When a blade needs sharpening, I take it out of the plane, give it a bit of a polish on the back and then set it in the jig, which takes less than a minute. I run through the grits as described, give it a wipe, have a look at it and then put it back in the plane.

I don't usually let the blades get that dull that they need a lot of work. I think the key to it is to sharpen often. The jig helps because it lets you put the blade in accurately at the same angle every time, so you are not rubbing away excess metal to get back to a full width bevel.

Having said that, if I'm doing a full day, I probably only sharpen 4 or 5 times depending. Having good quality steel helps there too.

I have some cheap diamond plates. They were aggressive when I first got them but wore out pretty quickly, so I don't use them any more. I found the good ones to be a bit expensive. Have to admit I don't know how long they last? My water stones have another 10 years in them I reckon. I might have to replace the 1000 sooner though. I tried 'scary sharp' but I didn't like the waste and cost of buying wet and dry all the time. I'm not a fan of anything that requires regular visits to the hardware shop.

I was quite happy with the double-sided oil stone in the early days but the problem with them is that once they are dished, you might as well throw them out. A water stone can be restored to flat very easily.

I'm not into the whole Japanese woodworking thing, it doesn't appeal to me at all. But I reckon they got the water stones right...

I thought that it would be convenient to keep my waterstones wet. It was.
However, over time, they started to feel slippery/mucky/gooey as though there was
some sort of slimy bacterial/fungal growth on the stones. I was concerned that
whatever the muck was, it would pack inbetween the grit particles and muffle the
cutting performance.

These days, I soak the stones as I need them. That's the time to clear off enough
bench space to get their little "cages" clamped to the bench, etc.
That seems to be as convenient as anything, not the least bit messy.
All my edge management is freehand, from my Stanley #5, the spokeshaves, to my european style gouges.
I had to add cylindrical abrasives for all the crooked knives and adzes, those are done dry.

Yes I've heard people in some colder climates have issues with fungus etc. Apparently a few drops of bleach in the water solves it. I've even heard of people who have left their stones in a water bath only to discover it has frozen solid overnight. I'm lucky enough to live somewhere that it's not an issue.

It's worthwhile learning to sharpen freehand, especially if you are working with odd-shaped edges. I just find that for chisels and plane blades using a jig is part of making it a quick and repeatable process. Theoretically the old bevel will exactly mate with the stone if the blade is located identically in the jig each time - the Veritas jig I use makes that easy. So there is a minimal amount of grinding needed on the 1000 stone to get a fresh bevel full width. If the blade is slightly out, you can end up having to wear away more off one corner than the other, which obviously adds to the time it takes. It also reduces the time until you have to grind a new clearance bevel.

I really hate sharpening so anything that makes it mindless and quick is beneficial to my mood

Very good points in a sensible post. Thanks.

As a matter of fact, I do have some straight edges =
several pairs of 1/2" skews, a couple of carver's stop chisels,
some spokeshaves and a Stanley #5.
Had to learn the reverse process for the crooked knives =
the tool is stationary and the abrasive is moved!

Effort: very little. I inspect the edge in bright light (18W LED lamp)
and a few licks maybe 1500 then hone with CrOx and I have a carving-sharp edge again.
Like you, sharpening is not the highlight of my day.
I'm competent enough now that I can lay a crooked knife over my knee
and tune it up.

I can say that you all with long straight edges have a very different puzzle
than is the situation in my case.

All good points so far.

Yes I have the waterstones, yes I have the many different Wet & dry Papers, Yes I have the Veritas Jig

Agree with all your comments BUT I must say this, My Trend Diamond Stone arrived 300/1000 plate with lapping fluid and what a change of pace.

I can strongly recommend the plate (it is expensive though ) but I took to a few swedish chisels and Japanese chisels and I was amazed at the speed of the cuts.

Here is the product link (Videos posted on page as well)
http://www.trend-uk.com/en/AU/produc...ble_sided.html

I now can take a very bad chisel back through both the 300 then 1000 diamond, then 4000WS to remove the marks, 6000WS for final smooth look and strop all within 5 minutes. I should have taken before and after pictures, but it all happened so fast.

My OCD no longer has time to analyse any issues

Agreed - I never go past 6000 for chisels, planes, kitchen knives etc. and haven't had any problems. I do occasionally consider a higher grit stone, but only for lust of a shiny edge...I snap out of it eventually

I seem to take forever to sharpen but it's something I've come to enjoy!