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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moonbi nsw Aus
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    69
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    2,065

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    The way our Tech teacher (Carpentry & Joinery Coarse) showed us, to hold tools onto a grinding wheel was to get at least one finger as close as 20mm from the grinding edge. Yes it is perfectly safe and the heat sensors built into the finger get to the "Move it now!!" spot well before the steel gets over heated.
    I was quite surprised just how much cooler the AluOx wheels runs compared to the grey wheels. I only ever use a light touch when grinding tools
    Just do it!

    Kind regards Rod

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bellingen
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    587

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    I have braze welded HSS cutter tips to mild steel before with no issue. I did this after some advice from other forum in the metal work section.

    Their take on it was the actual annealing cycle for HSS is a very long and slow process. The 30 seconds at bright red when you braze it has no effect on it's working hardness.
    They also pointed out quenching is not needed.
    Well.. thats all good and well for lathe tooling as the steel is of high quality but cheap to buy... I think I would cringe if I did that with an expensive chisel. But I doubt you could soften HSS on a grinder....

    The HSS in woodworking tools could be different but the three grades I have use (M2, M35 and M42) don't seem to perform any different if I have welded them, cut them with an angle grinder or ground them till they turn black on the grinder. The cutting edges get honed on hand stones after.

    ......now I'm going to eat my words for the second time...I still could not do that to a HSS chisel or plane blade.. But if I did, I would not loose any sleep over it!

    As a side question, can you get HSS every bit as sharp as the normal carbon steel woodworking tools? Actually, I might put that up in a new thread.

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    12,746

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    That's a perennial.

    I found the high vanadium HSS tools to feel less keen off the grinder but they kept on cutting for longer than M2.

    Refining the edge of whatever steel is said to pay dividends in edge durability and clean cutting. That said most turning tool cutting miles are hacking (aka rapid stock removal) and a keen edge can be reserved for finishing cuts if you prefer turning to tweaking edges.
    Cheers, Ern

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dundowran Beach
    Age
    76
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    19,922

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    Just put another thread up but I will say here much the same as I said in the new thread.

    My Blue Max wheel is too coarse to give me the edge I want.

    I am looking at either Whit or pink Alox wheels. Apparently the pink runs even cooler than the white.


    The trouble witht the Blue Max is that the edge becomes jagged, despite dressing the wheel. I have - finally -managed to set up a good grinding jig and I can get a very good fingernail grind on the gouges, then the edge crumbles a little in one spot and I have a scalloped edge!! Cuts well but very tricky to manage.

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    455

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post
    Isn't the CBN gonna have to run very true as you can't round it the way you can with a friable wheel?
    for some reason I am browsing info re CBN wheels and found this one. Noting rssr's comment above - while a CBN wheel may be 'true' out of the box as also quoted - the CBN wheel has got to be precision fitted. You basically want a precision fit on your CBN wheels as you can't true them with a diamond stone like on a normal wheel. Any wheel fitted to a grinder needs to fit the grinder spindle very well i order to 'run' true, - fortunately its easy to dress a traditional wheel.

    Our local club has a CBN wheel on a Jet brand grinder (think its Jet?) and a quick glance at it recently told me that it indeed was out of true on the spindle and only grinding on about half of the CBN wheel surface.............If I had a CBN wheel I be setting it up with a dial indicator or only putting such a grinding wheel on a grinder spindle that was very true - and one that the CBN bore fitted snugly to (or re-machining the grinder spindle).

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,757

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zsteve View Post
    for some reason I am browsing info re CBN wheels and found this one. Noting rssr's comment above - while a CBN wheel may be 'true' out of the box as also quoted - the CBN wheel has got to be precision fitted. You basically want a precision fit on your CBN wheels as you can't true them with a diamond stone like on a normal wheel. Any wheel fitted to a grinder needs to fit the grinder spindle very well i order to 'run' true, - fortunately its easy to dress a traditional wheel.

    Our local club has a CBN wheel on a Jet brand grinder (think its Jet?) and a quick glance at it recently told me that it indeed was out of true on the spindle and only grinding on about half of the CBN wheel surface.............If I had a CBN wheel I be setting it up with a dial indicator or only putting such a grinding wheel on a grinder spindle that was very true - and one that the CBN bore fitted snugly to (or re-machining the grinder spindle).
    If the spindle is out then no amount of of wheel truing is long term going to help any wheel.

    A traditional wheel can indeed be trued on a whacked spindle but that is not the way to fix the problem as repeated truing may eventually unbalance the wheel and increase the vibe so that it rapidly untrues and leads to the need to continually dress the wheel and ultimately shortening its life.

    The reason I have found that conventional wheels often need repeated truing is because of their nature they use softish (e.g. plastic) arbor bushes and small amounts of vibe can lead to a small amount of wear that in turn wears the spindle. I had a related problem with a Blue Max wheel. Eventually I was having to true the wheel so often I finally pulled it off the arbor and found the plastic arbor bush had started to crush slightly on one side. Fortunately the spindle was not too badly affected but the wheel was shot and could not be trued.

    I think conventional wheel manufacturers tend to be on the sloppy in the way they put wheels together and assume any problems will be fixed by wheel truing by the user. Some of the cheaper wheels are so bad they are not even worth putting on a grinder.

    The steel on steel fitting of CBN wheels are far less likely to have this problem. If the spindle is not worn or bent the CBN wheels should run true out of the box. A quality CBN wheels should also be dynamically balanced so they suffer far less vide to start with.

    If the grinder spindle is shot then its time to get another grinder irrespective of what wheel is used.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,820

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    With the vibrating CBN wheel, I ran my 80 on an old grinder. It hummed like crazy. I thought the grinder was rooted....Jim sold me a 180 wheel and as soon as that was installed on the other side its now dead smooth.

    YMMV, but my grinder absolutely needed two wheels to be vibe free.

    BTW, loooooooovvvvvveeee my CBN's. A fabulous investment. I'd love a 320 Jim

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,757

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    It won't help if the spindle or arbor bush are out but a variable speed grinder is a wonderful thing to have if the grinder has a small vibe. Just changing the speed of the grinder by a few RPM can reduce the vibe substantially.

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    455

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    Even if the spindle is in good condition, the bore of the wheel put on it - cbn or other wise is unlikely to run true/ concentrically if it's not a snug fit. Then there's the washers either side of it for clamping /tightening which can contribute to problems.

    Not sure what I am trying to say other there's alot of things that can make a good product sub optimal or reduce from the " total" that it can be without people realising.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    141

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    How does one best shim a grinder spindle to get rid of play???

    Or should we hammer the sides of the CBN wheel centre to downsize it?

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,757

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    Quote Originally Posted by blouis79 View Post
    How does one best shim a grinder spindle to get rid of play???
    Or should we hammer the sides of the CBN wheel centre to downsize it?

    If the spindle is too small for a wheel then a bush can be made that matches the spindle and the wheel.
    On abrasive wheels there should already be some sort of soft material bush made out of some sort of plastic.
    This bush can be just remade to suit.
    If it is a CBN wheel then a steel or brass bush will be required.
    If its just a gnats whisker out the it may not be possible to make a bush that fits the whisker.
    Then the choices become difficult - either turn down the spindle - tricky but OK is you have the skills but this puts the spindle out of normal usage range for other wheels
    OR
    Bore out the CBN wheel centre = also tricky as you may upset the wheel balance in doing so.
    I'd be getting that and the bush made by someone with a really good metal work lathe and that also knows how to use it.

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