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  1. #16
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    Mar 2005
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    In the shed, Melbourne
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    47
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    G'day Jmk89,

    Thanks on the update, be interested to read what you can find out.
    I make things, I just take a long time.

    www.brandhouse.net.au

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lindfield N.S.W.
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    57
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    5,536

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    OK

    Fuchs have sent me a note on Colorsal. You can only buy it in 20 litre quantities! and it has to be used in a 5 bath system where the various baths are heated.... A bit tough for a home job to deal with rust on a few saws, planes and chisels!!!
    Here is the product info sheet, Fuchs sent me:
    Attachment 57605

    So I think I may give this a miss! But don't let my lilly-liveredness hold anyone else back.

    In the meantime, I have found a supplier of small amounts of the Birchwood Casey liquid cold blue. I may look into this a bit more and see what comes of it.

    If Bob Smalser is still looking at this, is it OK to use the Birchwood Casey blue or does it have to be Brownells?
    Cheers

    Jeremy
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Katherine ,Northern Territory
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    64
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    1,977

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk89 View Post
    OK

    Fuchs have sent me a note on Colorsal. You can only buy it in 20 litre quantities! and it has to be used in a 5 bath system where the various baths are heated.... A bit tough for a home job to deal with rust on a few saws, planes and chisels!!!
    Here is the product info sheet, Fuchs sent me:
    Attachment 57605

    So I think I may give this a miss! But don't let my lilly-liveredness hold anyone else back.

    In the meantime, I have found a supplier of small amounts of the Birchwood Casey liquid cold blue. I may look into this a bit more and see what comes of it.

    If Bob Smalser is still looking at this, is it OK to use the Birchwood Casey blue or does it have to be Brownells?

    JMK,
    I bought a small bottle of the Birchwood Casey liquid gun blue just recently ,so far I have used it to blacken a pair of antique fencing pliers I have had for a long time and decided to restore them. It works good .
    Just follow the instructions on the bottle .It also helps to put the steel in the sun for a while to warm it up.
    I will be using it on my Stanley mitre saw to bring the etch back to life.

    Cheers
    Kev.
    "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend ,inside a dog it's too dark to read"
    Groucho Marx

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Lindfield N.S.W.
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    Kev

    That sounds like the way to go, then.

    BTW, on following the instructions, have a look at this suggestion on how to get a better result using cold blue - the idea is to use gun oil rather than water to neutralise the blue solution...
    Cheers

    Jeremy
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Seabeck, WA, USA
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    70
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    211

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk89 View Post

    If Bob Smalser is still looking at this, is it OK to use the Birchwood Casey blue or does it have to be Brownells?
    Compared to Oxpho it wears off quickly, offers inferior rust protection, and likes to after-rust after application. Use lots of oil.

  7. #21
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    Feb 2007
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    Katherine ,Northern Territory
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    Interesting ,I did a pair of large needle nose pliers on the weekend and used water to flush off the residue .Then I soaked them in CRC 5-56 and wiped them clean after an hour or so.
    I checked tonite and they seem ok ,I havent been leaving them overnite like the article says .
    Next tool I try I'll follow that article.
    "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend ,inside a dog it's too dark to read"
    Groucho Marx

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Katherine ,Northern Territory
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Smalser View Post
    Compared to Oxpho it wears off quickly, offers inferior rust protection, and likes to after-rust after application. Use lots of oil.

    I guess we are stuck with it though Bob .
    Years ago I reblued a Marlin 45-70 lever action rifle , I used the g96 creme . It all but rubbed off with in a few weeks of use .I still have the rifle and it has a nice worn patina to it ,but not much blue colour.

    I have a few old recipes for gun blue concoctions ,but have no idea what some of the chemicals are or where to get them .

    Cheers
    Kev
    "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend ,inside a dog it's too dark to read"
    Groucho Marx

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    21

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    Dont know if you guys are still reading this but a product called duracoat(i think something like that ) is unreal brother is armourer and has done a couple of things for me gets it from Qld sunshine coast think its yank blue or black then a sealer. Did stair saw which I missplaced on exposed back deck got rained on etc no rust pitting pretty impressive

  10. #24
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Gosford
    Posts
    714

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    Many thanks for your efforts in posting another great tutorial, Bob. I was lucky enough to complete part of my carpentry apprenticeship with an old dutch tradesman who was a wiz with all hand tools. He would have had no idea what "the dark side" was all about.

    Anyway, he took the time to show me how to sharpen different handsaws properly and made sure I attended to this on a regular basis. Twenty years or so later I found myself teaching 1st year Carpentry & Joinery part time at the local Trade College and attempting to interest the guys in saw sharpening. Unfortunately by this time everyone owned a Power Saw, a Compound Mitre Saw, a Jig Saw, a Reciprocating Saw, a small Table Saw etc.

    Also, the age of the disposable hardened point saw had arrived, and at $20 each most couldn't be bothered with general use hand saws any more. Those that did own one just sent them off to the saw doctor as they couldn't be bothered themselves, or simply didn't know how.

    Great to see you re-visit this craft, and much appreciated by all here. I learn a lot from the incredible detail in each of your posts.

    Wayne
    Don't Just Do It.... Do It HardenFast!!

    Regards - Wayne

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake Macquarie , NSW
    Posts
    1

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk89 View Post
    OK

    Fuchs have sent me a note on Colorsal. You can only buy it in 20 litre quantities! and it has to be used in a 5 bath system where the various baths are heated.... A bit tough for a home job to deal with rust on a few saws, planes and chisels!!!
    Here is the product info sheet, Fuchs sent me:
    Attachment 57605

    So I think I may give this a miss! But don't let my lilly-liveredness hold anyone else back.

    In the meantime, I have found a supplier of small amounts of the Birchwood Casey liquid cold blue. I may look into this a bit more and see what comes of it.

    If Bob Smalser is still looking at this, is it OK to use the Birchwood Casey blue or does it have to be Brownells?
    I have blue many firearms with Colorsal and Houghto-black both available in Aust .
    I think they tend to put people off with the process , but with Colorsal you can achieve one of the best "blue color" around .
    The procedure is simple all you need :

    A heat source (LPG is fine)
    Steel or 304L stainless containers (2 off) welded seams
    Stainless (Tig) wire to hang objects

    And thats all

    In one container I run a caustic degreaser at a temperature of 100 C
    And in the second I use the Colorsal roll boiling at 145 C

    The use of personal protective equipment is on the highest order !!!!!
    Never take short cuts with any boiling caustic solutions ..

    Procedure :
    Place item (nothing other than Steel) in the Degreaser until all traces of grease ,oil are removed , then while item is still hot place it in the colorsal bath , lifting occaisionally to check desired color.
    You will find that a brown rust film will cover the job on removal but before it cools cover with SAE 30 or so oil then you will find the rust will come off ..
    With heavily rusted items I usually imerse them in a diluted solution of Hydrochloric acid before the degreaser .
    Hope this helps !

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Seabeck, WA, USA
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    70
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    211

    Default

    Sorry, but the only cold blue that provides any significant rust resistance is Oxpho. Birchwood Casey is particularly bad about after rust and wears off qquickly.

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Katherine ,Northern Territory
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    64
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    Bob ,
    I bought a Disston D 3 saw vice a few years ago , and was wondering what the two thumb screws were for on the rear jaw.
    Then a year or so ago I managed to get my hands on the same model vice and it had this attachment which swivelled and had a bracket that a file fitted into (pics attached) .On the swivelling part there are markings that look as if they were put there by a previous owner as a guide for filing cross cut saws.The marks correspond to 90 deg perpendicular to the saw vice and the other two about 15 deg at angle to the vice to the left and right ( 15 deg either side of 90)
    I realise its a saw filing attachment but I have never seen any reference to this on a saw vice.
    I'm just curious as to the rarity of the attachment ,as I haven't seen these before or any reference to them .
    Were they some thing that a saw doctor would regard as a gimmick and discard , or were they used .
    I actually got two attachments with the second vice , but one is missing some parts for the file holder.

    Kev.
    "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend ,inside a dog it's too dark to read"
    Groucho Marx

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Seabeck, WA, USA
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    70
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    I don't know anything about storebought saw vises or filing jigs. I imagine there were countless designs. With woodies you don't have to stop filing every 15 minutes and reposition the saw.

    The new one with hinges is a British design from Alice Frampton's web site and the old one is a Pennsylvania Dutch design I grew up with.







    Using a couple simple strips of wood the old birdsmouth vise handles back, tenon and dovetail saws nicely....so I keep it around. It's just slower to set up the saw.

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Ok . Thanks Bob.
    "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend ,inside a dog it's too dark to read"
    Groucho Marx

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    71
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    19

    Default

    Nice post bob. Love to read someone who has done the miles to know their stuff

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