Thread: Reasonable Sharpening Setup

180g CBN for turning tools will be all that is needed. Add a 1000/6000 combination waterstone, or a course/fine oil stone and you can get a decent edge for your bench chisels too. If you are just using chisels for carpentry type work, then the edge straight off the grinder is very suitable for most tasks. A better edge off honing stones is more suitable to fine cabinetry work.

Pretty much what Kuffy said, however I would add:

Bench grinder universal toolrest

Veritas mk2 sharpening guide (maybe with the narrow blade holder) for your chisels

Teknatool/Wolverine/Sorby fingernail profile jig for your turning chisels.

The grinder toolrest is an absolute must; once you've used it you'll never go back. It can grind all your blades including skew chisels with the exception of fingernail profiled gouges. Carbatec have it on sale at the moment for $34.

The Veritas sharpening jig is the best available but comes with a hefty price tag, if your budget won't stretch another couple of hundred for it then at the other end of the price range is the copied-by-everybody Eclipse sharpening jig that will do 90% of what the Veritas can if used carefully.

Hi,

I saw a bloke with a set of good woodworking chisels and he could pass one of them along the edge of a piece of copy paper and peel off a sliver with no resistance.

His method

- prep the chisel (if previously stuffed) on a bench grinder to get a hollow ground primary angle of about 25 deg, being careful not to overheat the edge

- use a honing guide to begin a 30 deg secondary angle on an oilstone like this

https://db1736767dbd5e7094bb-d61bbc5...f1de7625db.jpg

- he liked a honing guide with 2 wheels rather than the common cheap 1 wheel type because it did not wobble. They are expensive tho, from Carbatec etc

http://s3.amazonaws.com/finewoodwork...g-guide_md.jpg

- after getting a secondary angle of 2-3 mm wide on the fine side of the oilstone (where most of us stop) he then proceeds to a Japanese waterstone

https://www.carbatec.com.au/sharpeni...-1000-and-6000

- eventually after honing on the fine grit side (you can go even finer, 8000 - 10000 grit) you have a secondary angle of 30 deg which is like a mirror. The reasoning is that if there are no visible scratches running to the edge, there are no micro-nicks in the edge

- all the above process from the oilstone on is repeated on the first 10 - 15 mm of the flat side as well

- some of his secondary edge angles were quite wide, 5 mm or a bit more. It did not seem to matter.

- THEN he strops the edge by drawing the chisel backwards flat side down, at a slight angle, on leather, with fine buffing compound

That seems to be the ultimate. The same works for hand planer blades. You should see these chisels cut wood. Like butter they went.

Cheers

The bench grinder is a start to shape the chisel, main thing is not to burn the end by overheating the steel, it is quite easy to do.

The Vertias MKII sharpening guide is great on wet stones, its is a foolproof system and i think its well priced.

I used mine on Sharpton Stones until it was mirrored, i use to go a little overboard, trying to get the perfect edge.

I then brought a Tormek, and it was the worse thing ever, every family member and friend seems to think its ok to dump there planer blades, chisels and axes at my place to sharpen.

It is quicker and it does give a nice edge, but i get a better edge with waterstones and Vertias MKII, but that is due to the extra time i spend with the finer grades of stones.

You won't regret getting a Tormak, but starting with a sharping guide and a stone is the best way to start, and cheaper

Originally Posted by Kuffy

180g CBN for turning tools will be all that is needed. Add a 1000/6000 combination waterstone, or a course/fine oil stone and you can get a decent edge for your bench chisels too. If you are just using chisels for carpentry type work, then the edge straight off the grinder is very suitable for most tasks. A better edge off honing stones is more suitable to fine cabinetry work.

More cabinatry then Carpentry work. I was hoping the 180 cbn was all that was reauired for a decent, not perfect, result.

A Tormek is a grinder, not a sharpener. The basic wheel is 220 grit and refined it is 1000 grit. Stopping to a fine edge is possible, but it is such an inefficient way to hone blades. A CBN wheel on a dry grinder is in a different class altogether. I have both, and switch ed to the CBN about 2 years or so ago. The story and my sharpening system is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ningSetUp.html

All this aside ... WWF, I must point out that all of the above is a very expensive way to sharpen a blade for such occasional use. Especially if you plan to use a honing guide. Hollow grinding is not the domain of a honing guide. Hollow grinding is especially suited to those freehand sharpening.

The benefit of a honing guide is that you create a secondary bevel. You do not need a hollow for this. You can create a new primary bevel with the honing guide on coarse sandpaper or a coarse diamond stone. Of course you can do so on a wheel as well, but it is not necessary. In the days I used a honing guide mostly, I created the primary bevel on a belt sander: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...rinderMkI.html

If you think you may head towards freehand honing, then the hollow grind is ideal. Indeed, the hollow is in fact a guide in its own right. Simply grind at the angle you want, then hone directly on the hollow. This supports the bevel at the angle you want.

However, if all you plan to to is use a chisel a few times a year, then a honing guide, a sheet of glass, and a few grits of wet-and-dry sandpaper (120/240/600/1200/2000) will give you a great edge.

Here is my 10c sharpening system (it is a Serious system!): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...%20System.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Pretty much what Kuffy said, however I would add:

Bench grinder universal toolrest

Veritas mk2 sharpening guide (maybe with the narrow blade holder) for your chisels

Teknatool/Wolverine/Sorby fingernail profile jig for your turning chisels.

The grinder toolrest is an absolute must; once you've used it you'll never go back. It can grind all your blades including skew chisels with the exception of fingernail profiled gouges. Carbatec have it on sale at the moment for $34.

The Veritas sharpening jig is the best available but comes with a hefty price tag, if your budget won't stretch another couple of hundred for it then at the other end of the price range is the copied-by-everybody Eclipse sharpening jig that will do 90% of what the Veritas can if used carefully.

Why do I need the Veritas kit if i have the CBN sith the Tormek jigs?

Originally Posted by bryn23

The bench grinder is a start to shape the chisel, main thing is not to burn the end by overheating the steel, it is quite easy to do.

The Vertias MKII sharpening guide is great on wet stones, its is a foolproof system and i think its well priced.

I used mine on Sharpton Stones until it was mirrored, i use to go a little overboard, trying to get the perfect edge.

I then brought a Tormek, and it was the worse thing ever, every family member and friend seems to think its ok to dump there planer blades, chisels and axes at my place to sharpen.

It is quicker and it does give a nice edge, but i get a better edge with waterstones and Vertias MKII, but that is due to the extra time i spend with the finer grades of stones.

You won't regret getting a Tormak, but starting with a sharping guide and a stone is the best way to start, and cheaper

From what I have read the CBN on a good grinder is a better performer and a better deal then the Tormek!

Originally Posted by Damienol

Why do I need the Veritas kit if i have the CBN sith the Tormek jigs?

More cabinatry then Carpentry work. I was hoping the 180 cbn was all that was reauired for a decent, not perfect, result.

Sharpening (for bench chisels and plane blades) may be separated into two categories: creating a primary bevel, and creating a polished edge. The grinder will create a primary bevel, but at 180 grit (as you planned), it is very far from a working sharp edge. The latter is typically at 6000 grit (the lower end of the range) and much higher (upwards from 8000 grit).

Incidentally, lathe chisels are often used off the grinder. In such cases, if using a CBN wheel, I'd aim for two wheels, a 80 grit for shaping and 240 grit for refining.

Please do not purchase anything until you understand what you need to use. Otherwise you will make some expensive mistakes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Damienol

From what I have read the CBN on a good grinder is a better performer and a better deal then the Tormek!

Derek is right about the grinder being a first stage, and then creating a polished edge.

I just find if i'm in a rush i can i can get away with the refined grit of the Tormek, its sharp enough to get the job done

i can easily spend hours getting up to the 8000 Grit Shapton via the 4000 grit stone, on my Lie Nielsen chisels and plane blades, but finding that time isn't easy, but it is rewarding.

I learn't on a bench grinder and oil stones at Tech, when i did my cabinetmaking apprenticeship, it is an art to do it right.

The MKII guide makes it almost impossible to stuff up the final polish.

There are many ways to skin a cat, that link Derek posted is a cheap way to achieve a reasonable sharp chisel.

As for the CBN, being better value, it depends how much use you get out of it... i use my Tormek to shape my Axes, planer blades, chisels and kitchen knives.

It comes down to getting the angle right and getting the edge straight, and i find the Tormek guides are great for that.

Worksharp 3000 with knife attachment will cost you less than $300 and you can sharpen almost anything in less than a minute for touch-up work. I free hand lath tools on the bar across the top. If you want to take it to the next level you can build Stumpy's jig and get away from the glass wheels and make ones from MDF and use compounds on them I have used this for years and love it. You just have to decide how you want to sharpen your tools. Lot of options out there.

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One way or another, you need a method to keep the bevel angle the same from one sharpening episode to the next.
Even if you have to write it down, different wood working tools have different bevel angles for best performance.
Even among my rough-out tools for the basic shaping of a wood carving, the adzes are not all the same.
The 7/75 Stubai is 30 degrees. The kestrel elbow adze blade is 25 degrees and the D-adze is 20 degrees, like a Pfeil gouge.
The drawknife (25) and the spoke shaves (28) are different again, as well.

Although mine is mechanical, I have seen some digital protractors for measuring angles for about $15 each.
You need one of those.

The learning process continues, confusion levels are high and time is running out so if I don't find a cost effective solution soon I will end up with socks and jocks for Xmas.

It would appear that from all the advice that I have that if I want to sharpen wood chisels to a cabinetry grade and also sharpen turning tools ( and the odd lawn mower blade and knife) I need a combination of tools. And it won't be cheap.

So based on all that it sounds like I need a good grinder (vicmarc half speed $300), plus some tormek jigs ($300) plus a honing guide and Japanese sharpening stones (Veritas mk ii kit $300). In the future I should conisider a Cbn wheel Or two ($250+)..... at this rate it might be cheaper to buy new chisels as required!

You don't have to go expensive at all. The only expensive bit of my sharpening system is the Veritas mk2 but if I needed to I can cope happily with a $20 Eclipse copy. Or learn to hone freehand; personally I'll always prefer using a jig. Derek's 10c sharpening system works as does the similar Scary Sharp, both are simple and cheap and effective.

Trade Tools do an 8" grinder for about $100 bucks, add a white oxide wheel for another $50-60 and that is your grinding centre sorted. Half speed grinders reduce the likelihood of burning or removing too much metal but you can achieve the same results on a full speed grinder with a light touch.

Toolsets and turning tool jigs can also be handmade from scrap bits and pieces, there are plenty of plans available online.

We are ridiculously spoilt with the range of toys available to us, go back a hundred years or so and professionals would be using a grinder and oil/water stones all by hand.