Thread: Recommendation for where to buy waterstones?

Just went for a rummage in the shed - final head count is a Norton 220 grit, King 1000, King 1200, unknown Japanese 4000 grit (originally from Carbatec?), and a Norton 1000/8000 combo.

I won't bother including the Norton so-called "flattening stone", which itself needs flattening so often as to make it pointless. We live and learn......I remember an article in the Chris Schwarz Popular Woodworking blog where he ceremonially smashed his Norton flattening stone to bits on the floor with a hammer.

A sheet of 240 grit wet and dry stuck to (preferably) plate glass and used with water is a more practical way of keeping waterstones flat. I scrounged an offcut of 10mm plate glass from a local glazier for a couple of beers, and sheets of 240 grit W&D are cheap. These days my Shapton ceramic stones get flattened on diamond plates.

Originally Posted by Mnb

So I have managed to lose the reply I had but a couple of things I wanted to ask were:
first about honing compound. I was wondering if there is much difference in the quality of the different products? I've seen a far bit of variety in the price.

Jumping from say a 2000 grit wet and dry (which is what I was considering before asking on the forum) to the honing compound, will that get the same result but take longer than going to a higher stone first?

I bought a cheap version of Dremel when I thought I might have to do some sort of woodworking sitting down and it included a green polishing paste. Is it the same thing?

And, the stones I have are 50mm wide but my blades are 51mm. I can't quite get the whole blade on at once and it makes it really difficult. Is that normal or because I have cheap stones?


BTW; I really appreciate all the replies. It was a real help.

Firstly, you do not need a medium after 2000 grit W&D before going to green compound. The green compound cuts quickly and is 0.5 micron (average grit). The 2000 W&D is about 10 microns. An 8000 grit waterstone is 1.2 micron. These ratings can vary, but are in the ball park for comparison sake.

Green compound comes from a number of sources, some purer than others. A little variation here-or-there is not important (only to those on the anal side ... probably most of us ). Purchase the Lee Valley version from Carbatec, and you'll be safe.

Secondly, it sounds like you are using a honing guide. Just skew the guide and blade, and it will not be a problem on a 2" wide stone. Wider blades will also work with this method. I hone freehand on a hollow grind, and sharpen side ways along the length of the stone.

Lastly, give some thought to grinding the primary bevel. A bench grinder or belt sander is a common tool here. Sing out if you have either, and we will guide you through the use.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Honing compounds are all very fine abrasives.
You ought to be able to move from 2,000 grit to CrOx green (0.5 micron) for a nice result
that's sharp enough.
AlOx aluminum oxide (white) is commonly 0.25 micron particle size and gets the same job done.
Oxides of copper and iron run through the range of yellows to browns and rust-reds in the same group as AlOx.

In a bar/stick of compound, the carrier is usually some sort of wax. That means you can scribble the compound on any sort of very smooth card stock of any size. Just support that on a hard smooth surface for a nice result.

Freehand, remember that you're sharpening from your knees, not your elbows.

Originally Posted by Robson Valley

Freehand, remember that you're sharpening from your knees, not your elbows.

So that's how my father used to do it. I watched him often, but never picked up on this. Thanks RB.

Exactly, few people notice. Hold your forearms tight to your ribs, move from your knees.
This prevents you from sweeping the tool up off the abrasive. You are the jig.
I have the bevel angles drawn on sheets of card, stood up so I can match that.

I have nothing useful to contribute, I just wanted to say thank you for the posts on this thread. I've been reading, following the links and learning a lot. Really helpful.

Originally Posted by Robson Valley

Exactly, few people notice. Hold your forearms tight to your ribs, move from your knees.
This prevents you from sweeping the tool up off the abrasive. You are the jig.
I have the bevel angles drawn on sheets of card, stood up so I can match that.

RV, I have stated something similar for sharpening and planing, except that I describe the movement coming from the hips. To move the hips you need to bend the knees, of course.

I learned this in tennis, squash and, especially, karate. Power comes from the hips. Bend the knees to keep a constant height. This converts into a stable motion ... quite different from those that lunge forward using their shoulders or pump with their arms. A topic for another time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

In the beginning, I was taught by a full-time professional wood carver.
He's very busy and very well-to-do.
I do freehand sharpening, that's all I know. It works well enough.

Kit parallel to the edge of the bench. Stand up.
Pull stroke. Stop. Up. Back to beginning and down.
Another pull stroke. rectangular pattern.

I still paint the edge with black felt marker to make absolutely certain that I can see what is happening and where.

Next, you carve with all the crooked knives and adzes used by the Pacific Northwest native community.
Here, the blade/edge is held stationary and the abrasive on a mandrel moves parallel to the respective bevel angle.
It is totally bass-ackward to the usual freehand activity! I use a tennis ball as the mandrel for the Stubai 7/75 carving adze.

If I can do it all, so can you. $5 fine for whining.

To answer the question: it was easiest for me to buy all my water stones from Lee Valley.
Not knowing one from another except for grit size, I did OK. They work fine.
They drool, I'm too old to whine about the mud. Same for oil stones.

But for all the First Nations curved edges, hopeless. Have to use mandrels and fine sandpapers.
The late famous native carver, Mungo Martin, was in a film where he sharpened
his best crooked knife with a bucket of water and a rock.
I should be so good.

Originally Posted by Robson Valley

If I can do it all, so can you. $5 fine for whining.

Whose getting fined and do you want it in AUD,USD or CAD?

When I was an apprentice were got to file and hacksaw every afternoon at teck. After about a million hours you really learn to do it right, and here also you push from the legs or hips or whatever. More power, less tired and sore, but also much better control. Once you get proper technique it is remarkable how much work you can do with a decent file and hacksaw...and how accurately..

I've just seen all these replies. Thanks guys. I'm extremely glad I asked this question

Mr. Brush - This is going to be so much fun. I remember the feeling when I finally managed to get the plane set up right and the blade decently sharp and produced a nice curly shaving. I actually took it to show my Dad. (I'm 44 but woodworking seems to bring out the kid in me.) Since then I've fallen in love with the look and feel of wood after I've planed it - with a blade sharpened only to 1200 grit. 8000 grit is "like wow".

Yep, I do use a honing guide. I actually found one at Bunnings. The only one they had came with a stone and "the lubricant for the oil stone". It was actually a water stone I thought of skewing it to get the whole of the blade on the stone but wasn't confident enough. It rocks fairly easily and I was worried about stuffing up the angle.

I was trying to learn a whole lot of things at once at the time so minimising possible errors was important. Initially it was difficult to tell whether a problem I was having was due to the blade and my sharpening, the way I set the plane or my technique or all of the above. That's actually why I got the honing guide. I was trying to learn to sharpen freehand initially. I think I'd have a reasonable chance of success now but at the time I didn't even know what a burr felt like.

Robson Valley, thanks. I figured out to lock my arms in place but what was doing a weird kinda rocking. Knees totally makes sense. At the time I had no idea how long it would take and kept checking the blade. Then I couldn't find the same angle again because I lifted it up to peer at it.

Derek, guess what I spent much of the, 36degree, day doing? Yep trying to grind the primary bevel. I've been putting it off for a while but it's got to the stage where one of the irons in particular has hardly any relief between the bevel and the wood. The bevel must be getting towards 45 I guess. I have a combination bench sander. I won't go into my multiple stuff ups because it has been an effort to make sense as long as I have already. Currently I have the drill press moved up next to the sander and a bit of scrap pine clamped to the drill table sticking out over the belt sander but not touching it. The iron rests on the pine with the bevel end sitting on sanders belt. I put a bit of tape on the iron as a mark so I know which point rests on the wood and will get the same angle each time. tarted off well but now I'm having truble. I will try to make a diagram to show what I mean because experience tells me I don't explain very well.

The sander is horizontal. So like the wood over the sander is the honing guide but the abrasive is the thing that moves. bass-ackwards was it?

Combination bench sander, eh? Well, I have a jig/modification I designed about 13 years ago, when I still used a belt sander to grind the primary bevel (I have since gone to a bench grinder). There are two version, as it happens. The first is simple to make. The second is the posh version.

Mk 1: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...rinderMkI.html



Mk 2: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...erMK%20II.html



The honing guide from Bunnings is an Eclipse knock-off. It decent enough to work well.

From your description it sounds as though you are holding the blade too far back. Your fingers of one hand should be pressing down on the blade just behind the bevel. The other hand can push the guide via the back of the blade. The pressure from your fingers will influence where the blade will cut more, which is how you create camber. It is also how you control the balance of the blade when you skew it.

Regards from Perth

Derek