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Thread: Robert Sorby's ProEdge
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22nd May 2015, 08:42 PM #1
Robert Sorby's ProEdge
I recently had need to sharpen a number of abused chisels being a return favour for borrowing a trailer. This trailer has so far accompanied me to the last Boutique Timber Auction AND delivered a sit-on mower to number 1 daughter. Many thanks 62woolybugger!
i used this as a reason (excuse?) to buy a Robert Sorby ProEdge ...I mean who could complain?
My opinions so far are mixed. My current regime is Tormek (JET clone) and waterstone which is not particularly clever at heavy restoration. The ProEdge however is excellent at turning a wounded paint tin opener/ glue scraper/mortar remover into a noble woodworking chisel..or at least the basis for one!
i read in an earlier review (sorry, name unknown) where the reviewer referred to "dubbing" the edge and I now know what he means. The aluminium/ zirconia belts have a pronounced 'bump' at the join and it seems that each encounter with the bump seems to round over all surfaces that should otherwise be dead flat? The Trizact belts however do not have a bump at the join but, as they are only the finer grits, all they seem to do is polish the dubbed surfaces?
in general, I resent sharpening and regard it as a necessary evil so I don't want to make it any more complicated BUT I can't ignore the benefit that the ProEdge brings to restoration as compared to honing.
I do like the hollow ground produced by the 'Tormek' and its benefit in minimising the amount of waterstoning BUT the ProEdge results in a surface that requires a lot of waterstoning to remove the 'dubbing'.
Tomorrow I'm going to take a severely wounded chisel, restore it with the ProEdge, use the Tormek to give a hollow ground back and then finish the remaining 2 flats on water stones, a bit like the relieved back on Japanese chisels?
IF however Trizact make bumpless belts in the coarser grits then Robert Sorby is really onto something!
in short, the ProEdge;
- Is brilliant at bulk restoration of even the widest chisel and plane blades
- 'bumped' belts result in a slightly curved or dubbed surface
- bumpless belts would take a cutting surface to an excellent base for final honing on a stone BUT.....
- that surface is large and hence does not have the benefit of reducing the stone honing
Back to the shed....
flettyLast edited by fletty; 23rd May 2015 at 06:00 AM. Reason: can't catch, can't spell!
a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
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22nd May 2015 08:42 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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23rd May 2015, 03:00 AM #2GOLD MEMBER
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Belts are always going to dub an edge somewhat unless they are extremely tight and/or run at slow speed. If you can crank the tension on a belt up so that there is absolutely no slack at a platen, then you can get less dubbing, but to do so is not usually possible with cheap sanders and sharpening machines.
I don't think it's so much the lump that's dubbing your tools, I think it's that when the belt is running, it has a tendency to bunch up in front of a tool (Even if that means it's just lifting a tiny bit) and put a gradual dub over anything you sharpen. It will be hard to eliminate that.
Hard platen and no movement with lots of tension and any speed with a trizact belt can lead to burnt edges.
I don't know anything about the sorby stuff. I'm the kind of person who will spend $300-500 on a sharpening stone, but when some contraption comes out, I get immediately thrifty and won't purchase (did have a tormek, but gave it away to a friend).
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23rd May 2015, 05:58 AM #3
Thanks DW,
I think you are right about the belts bunching ahead of the blade. Unfortunately I'm the "kind of person who will spend $300 - 500 on a sharpening stone" AND buy the new contraption when it comes out! Oh, alright then $100 - 200 on a stone......!
When the Sun comes up I will try a full restoration with ProEdge to set a new edge, Tormek (clone) to hollow the bevel leaving small flats behind the edge and at the heel and then water stone those flats?
If that works then I should have overcome what I see as the problem with the Tormek and water stone combination which is its painfully slow creation of a new edge on a damaged chisel?
flettya rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
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23rd May 2015, 06:04 AM #4GOLD MEMBER
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I ditched the tormek and went to a dry grinder. Then a dry grinder with a pink wheel (which is a nice wheel, maybe the best combination of burn vs. finish, but it's a wheel that sheds its particles too fast), and then a dry grinder with an 80 grit CBN wheel. The 80 grit CBN wheel is an animal.
(same grinder in all of these things).
I've got the small kalamazoo belt grinder (I can't remember why I got it, but it is good for freehanding turning tools with the trizact belt), had the tormek (too slow, and always fiddling with it), and set up combination belt disk grinder with a belt, then a cork belt loaded and a leather wheel to power strop. the leather wheel ultimately resulted in shooting a sharp iron across the shop, which was bad.
Anyway, dry grinder and a coarse CBN wheel, it removes metal extremely fast and you really have to be on it a long time for it to actually get hot.
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23rd May 2015, 04:42 PM #5
I now wish I had't started this.....
As above, I took an old Berg, 19mm, bench chisel from the stash. The picture quality isn't too good but.....
Chisel before.jpg before sharpening
chisel after 60g.jpg after 60 on ProEdge
chisel after120g.jpg after 120g, notice the edge curving
chisel after 240g.jpg after 240g
chisel after 800trizact.jpg after ~800g Trizact, notice the polishing in the centre only?
chisel after1400trizact.jpg after~1400g Trizact
chisel after2000trizact.jpg after~2000g Trizact
I then took it, with some despair, to the JET wetstone grinder and adjusted it to hopefully provide a witness mark and then a hollow across the centre of the bevel but the bevel was so rounded from the ProEdge that the witness mark was an ellipse in the middle of the bevel...
chisel tormek WIP.jpg
and when I continued on the JET, by the time the ellipse 'filled' the bevel, the cutting edge was straight and the chisel ready for honing on a waterstone....
chisel tormek final.jpg
Right at the moment, I'm struggling to see a role for the ProEdge in my sharpening regime?
I will continue (in the privacy of my shed) in case there is a technique/experience issue but, so far, the only positive I can see is that the process from paint-can-opener to ready-for-honing seemed much quicker that JET alone? It would appear that I could go up to (say) 240g on the ProEdge and then straight to Tormek/JET?
flettya rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
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23rd May 2015, 05:22 PM #6
What are you doing to create the radiused edge,
How are you holding the tool
Are you moving the tool across the belt or holding in the one position.Jim Carroll
One Good Turn Deserves Another. CWS, Vicmarc, Robert Sorby, Woodcut, Tormek, Woodfast
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23rd May 2015, 06:33 PM #7
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24th May 2015, 12:51 AM #8
Just got home from the Rugby, Waratahs v the Crusaders, best game I've seen for years!
Hi Jim,
I figure that any 'dubbing' along the length of the chisel must be the abrasive bunching ahead of the edge and/or machine adjustment but 'dubbing' across the chisel must be technique. I have been holding the chisel against the mitre block to keep it square to the abrasive AND moving it from side-to-side to get even wear on the abrasive and to average out any imperfections. The trial chisel was a bevel edged chisel where the narrow face is against the tool guide and my fingers are on the top wider face. I must therefore be rocking it slightly while moving it from side-to-side. I'll try an old battered firmer chisel from the bottom drawer where the top and bottom faces of the chisel are of equal width and this should eliminate the rocking and hence the curved cutting edge. I'll also clean and possibly lubricate the tool rest in case the rocking is caused by friction and stiction while moving it from side-to-side.
My engineering brain has already designed a jig that will prevent rocking, still present the chisel to the abrasive at the right angle and allow the required side-to-side movement and end to end 'tilt' that comes from the process of removing the chisel material. I might also try, just once, to run the belt the other way so that the cutting edge itself is formed by a retreating abrasive belt NOT an advancing abrasive belt to see if the bunching can impact a less critical surface.
Don't worry Jim, I'm sure that the majority of issues must be technique and I will work on them. I'll make the jig over the next few weeks and send a report on that as well.
time for bed.....
flettya rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
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24th May 2015, 03:05 AM #9
Hi Fletty
Do yourself a favour and read this all the way through. You will not be disappointed.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ningSetUp.html
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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24th May 2015, 10:16 AM #10
Hi Derek and thanks again for the link. I've often wondered what, if anything, you can do if a CBN wheel isn't true ...or flat! I'm very keen to try a CBN wheel on the JET and I note that Jim has a 280g flat CBN wheel to suit a Tormek so that may be my next chapter in sharpening ... and SWWW is near?
HOWEVER I am now in a bit of trouble re 'justifying' the ProEdge purchase both to myself and 'others', I need to find its forte for me. I'll work on my technique and demonstrate its value by contributing to the sharpness and hence sale of some of my contentious stash of Bergs and Titans ?
The next trial will be ProEdging a battered old firmer chisel and, provided its edges are parallel, the resuscitation of an old shipwrights (?) slick (re?)found in the back of the treasures cupboard.
flettya rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
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24th May 2015, 11:33 AM #11
chisel slick.jpg
The old slick's slides were parallel and certainly it has enough weight to be more stable on the tool rest which I had also cleaned and lubricated with dry PTFE
chisel slick sfter 2000gtrizact.jpg
I progressed through 60, 120, 240, ~600, ~1400 and ~2000 on the back and then the bevel. I was very pleased with the result and, just to push it a bit, I used a piece of masking tape on the chisel to polish a microbevel with the 2000g only. The whole process took about 7 minutes.
I think my previous curved cutting edge was a combination of 'rocking' and 'fishtailing' both of which were absent with the heavier and much wider slick.
flettya rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!
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24th May 2015, 11:34 AM #12
Hum can I justify some chisels when your done
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25th May 2015, 05:10 PM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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Sorby pro edge.
Agree, but need jig for shorter(worn down)tools and you only get a flat grind
Not to say that they are not good, but that I was brought up on hollow grinding. Drillit.
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29th November 2015, 08:51 AM #14Hewer of wood
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My reading of the bevel rounding over fletty is that it can be caused by the taped belt join running higher on the platen than the rest of the belt. At the finer grits let the join do the work until it wears down.
And to add re the radiused edge: there's play in the guide; also with a BE chisel there may not be that much of the top to sit solidly on the guide and there's a tendency to rock. The tester in Aust Wood Review ran his BE chisel on the underside of the guide.Cheers, Ern
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29th November 2015, 10:48 AM #15GOLD MEMBER
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Is it worth trying it without sliding the blade back and forth across the belt and instead lift off and place on each side to provide equal wear?
Even with a dead flat back, you will always get some dubbing when sliding the blade.
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