Thread: My Sharpening Regime

Thanks for posting this up mate! Nice and straight fwd!

I also added another couple of entries on some nifty gadgets I picked up as well. A moisture meter and my metal detector (saw saver).

J

A metal detector is very handy as you never know where you are going to find some metal in wood. I had some timber given to me which had obviously been part of a piece of furniture. It was solid timber with an edge strip which I wanted to remove. Started putting it through the tablesaw and saw the dreaded sparks. Turned out that the edge strip had been positioned using steel dowels. If they had come through to the outside of the strip I would have seen them, but they were hidden inside. Got my metal detector after that.
A question regarding stones. What is the difference between water stones and oil stones, and are they easily differentiated?
I ask this question because I have a very fine stone that was given to me a long time ago, but I'm not sure whether to use oil or water on it.

Treecycle: the liquid is just the vehicle to carry away the swarf. Some people like to call the liquid a lubricant but that is the very last thing that you want!
Only thing is that if you start with one, you have to stick with it.

I have 3 coarse surfaces that I'll guess are running 80, 120 and 180 grit. I use 5W40 motor oil.

I have a couple of synthetic water stones (1k & 4k) that need 15 minutes soaking (do something else). They get dribbled and sopped up same as with the oil stones.
Some people object, claiming they all are messy. No, not true at all = each of mine sits in a dedicated cage for stability and for containing mucky swarf.

I use several grades of fine automotive finishing sandpapers (600, 800 & 1500 grit) for all the curves wood carving tools that I work with, adzes included.
I use them dry, seems to be entirely adequate, quick and economical.

Treecycle, Robson summed it up pretty well. When I was taught my teacher used the old Norton oil stones with Neats Foot oil. Any old oil should work though. The reason I switched to water stones is that Oil tends to get a little messy with woodworking tools. Also the water stones give a really fine edge but they require soaking before use.

You need to stick to one or the other. If you have any oil residue when you go to the water stone it can clog it.

You can use an oil stone with water but you need to clean it up before you do. To do this soak it in a detergent solution then when you use it use a little bit of detergent each time you use it then over time the oil will dissolve out.

As for your stone it depends. There are two types of water stones, your regular water stone which needs to be soaked before use. When you place it into the water it will bubble as the air comes out for about five minutes. After the air bubbles stop it will be ready to use. Just keep a water bottle handy to spray it occasionally. The other type is a ceramic stone. This is harder and does not require soaking. If you immerse it into the water it will not bubble. It simply requires keeping wet with a water bottle. The ceramic type are more expensive than the traditional water stones.

So if you immerse it in water and it bubbles for about 5 minutes then it is a traditional water stone. If it does not then it is ceramic or a regular aluminium oxide stone.

I don't know this for sure and you would need a microscope to tell but theory suggests to me that a traditional water stone would give you a finer edge than a ceramic stone. However there would not be much in it.

John

I believe that it boils down to abrasive particle size and the quantity of binder in the case of the synthetic stones. I like them as their composition can be controlled.
Some years ago, I began an exploration of the crooked knives in the style of the Pacific Northwest native carvers. Stones are hopeless so I began to use the 3M
wet/dry fine automotive sandpapers (There's a really nice chart in the Lee Valley catalog with measured grit sizes too.)

The real revelation was that I can have a fresh, clean and flat surface of known grit size as often as I feel is needed. Also, I can wrap those around mandrels of useful
radius for doing all of my curved tools, the crooked knives and the adzes as well.

If you're unfamiliar with these kinds of carving tools, a look through the Kestrel Tool online catalog should help.

Originally Posted by Robson Valley

I believe that it boils down to abrasive particle size and the quantity of binder in the case of the synthetic stones. I like them as their composition can be controlled.

There is also the durability of the particle and friability for the less durable particles. Diamond is not an issue and neither is CBN but aluminium oxide becomes dull over time and stops scratching the material and begins to rub it which results in a less well defined surface and therefore duller edge. Ceramic stones will hold the dull particles longer and therefore result in a more dull edge over time. The traditional water stone is softer and therefore reveals more sharp material over time resulting in a sharper edge. It would be good to see some actual investigation of edges from the various methods.

John

I find that repeated flooding of the abrasive surface with liquid does an adequate job of flushing away the swarf of metal bits and smashed abrasive particles. That's the function = to keep the abrasive surface cutting clean and the nominal grit size freshly exposed. A surface layer of mud is counter productive.

I suggest that you will find a satisfying collection of scanning electron micrographs of tool edges (National Research Council of Canada) in:

The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee. 1995. Taunton Press. ISBN 1-561158-067-8
It's available through Lee Valley Tools (as LL is the grand old man).

It's quite surprising to get a good look, at 2,000X or more, at the actual tool edge results.

More information than you really wanted or thought you needed. The Sharpening FAQ - Abrasives and Steels

Quite a revelation. And he seems to want to blast some myths out of the water.

Also makes Shapton look not as good as some people seem to believe.

John

PS Don't go there if you are short on spare time.

That was a good article...to be honest, I think I will need to read it again.

It's fair to say he is a fan or 3m micro mesh..I bought a set years ago and forgot to test it so I think I will be trying it out... I'm pretty happy with my system though. It's paid for, fast and will out live me all the way to retirement!

He did make one good point (actually he made a lot of them) about what is sharp enough for someone is ok for them... I think that is a good point to make. I class my tools to be sharp, but I'm sure they are far in the shadows compared to others.

One point confused me though. He talks about sharp tools leaving a dull looking finish but with open pores and blunt tools leaving a shiny finish as you are burnishing as you cut thus closing the pores...The statement made sense ( although I'm not convinced ....yet.. He does come off like he knows what he is on about). The sharper my tools get, the easier it is to make the cut including end grain and the shinier the surface becomes.

Anyone got another opinion on that? I always though waxy/shiny looking was an indicator of sharp tools..

I also liked the few mentions that chasing the most durable edge holding steel is not always the most important feature... I'm in that camp.. I just like the simple carbon steels.. They are quick and easy to sharpen and they hang on to that edge long enough for me.

It's a good read!
Thanks for posting it up!

Also the water stones give a really fine edge but they require soaking before use.

Yanis, that is only true for some waterstones, but not so for ceramic waterstones, which only need a spritz of water.

Tread warily with the link to Brent's page. His sharpening regime is overdone - who needs three micro bevels?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Actually another point I'm not sold on is he mentioned that slurry sharpening on whetstones is cosmetic only, especially when you let it dry out too much.
I don't use whetstones much anymore but I was right into them a long while back. I found that using them clean with water, a slurry mix and then a dryish slurry mix changed the way the cut. Especially the dryish slurry mix as I felt it performed a bit like a stropping compound which was a bit finer than the stone it came from.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Yanis, that is only true for some waterstones, but not so for ceramic waterstones, which only need a spritz of water.

Tread warily with the link to Brent's page. His sharpening regime is overdone - who needs three micro bevels?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Yes true. I do mention that.

John