Thread: Stones

I tend to agree. I reckon sharpening stones, and sharpening generally, are an OCD's paradise. It gives them something to obsess over.

I've never seen the point in chasing the perfect edge. A few passes with the plane, or cuts with the chisel, and that perfectly honed edge would probably be dulled back to what most people would consider sharp.

Unless the grain is extremely nasty, in which case it might be worth the effort. But then I drag out the cabinet scraper.

Originally Posted by jack620

OCD

And I thought I was risking a firestorm. Had to laugh!

When I was at high school one of the woodwork teachers spent a whole period talking about sharpening blades. First, you grind them on the bench grinder at a particular angle. I can't recall. Let's say 30deg. Then you take the blade to the stone, hold it at 40deg (whatever) and move it back and forth until you can see the new angle develop. Then lastly, you strop it on the palm of your hand.

It was part-way through the demonstration that the two teachers got into an argument. The one demonstrating how it should be done brought out a tool (jig) in which the blade was to be held. I think it was clamped using a small screw adjustment. The jig had a few rollers/wheels which rolled on the bench top and permitted the jig to be moved back and forth over the stone and, importantly, kept at a constant angle to the stone. I thought it quite clever at the time. The other teacher's argument was that if you rely on gadgets the students will never learn the proper technique. Like teaching them to walk with a crutch. The opposing argument was that it's better to walk with a crutch than not at all. It was a memorable session.

Originally Posted by ErrolFlynn

The jig had a few rollers/wheels which rolled on the bench top and permitted the jig to be moved back and forth over the stone and, importantly, kept at a constant angle to the stone.

Oh yeah, I’ve got one of those. I’d never be able to sharpen my plane blade without it.

Why hasn't someone invented what is essentially an angle grinder on its back with a flat disk and an angle guide to hold the blade for a few rotations and BINGO! it's done?

Would beat Tormek / Scheppach and their relatively complicated and in Tormek's case absurdly expensive machines for round wheels and changing angles and, certainly in the case of my Scheppach, not always all that accurate grinding unless you true the wheel every few minutes.

I have a super cheap machine that does pretty much the same thing dry. Just a moment... Probably best not to try running the disk in water, but otherwise it does the job and runs fairly cool if you're light on it, and less likely to burn as you just get to a fine edge than a bench grinder. Plus you can take it down through various grits.

Hi 419. Google "worksharp". I think that us what you are describing.

Originally Posted by ErrolFlynn

I suspect I’m treading sacred ground, but is it really such a big deal?

Yup. It's like how sacred Allah is to the Muslims, Jesus is to the Christians and Yahweh is to the Jews. Get them all together to talk about God and the guns are gonna come out. As far as each is concerned, they're right and everyone else is wrong, and they're gonna kill all that disagree.

Do what works for you. As you evolve, you'll refine the process to suite you. Much easier to ask others in person so you can see what they're talking about better. If you go with youtube they're likely spruiking something they're selling or it's click bait and may not be the best option for you.

Originally Posted by ErrolFlynn

I see a lot of threads talking about stones. Different types, price, value, colour. I suspect I’m treading sacred ground, but is it really such a big deal?

All the thing does is scrape some metal off your blade to give it an edge...

There are many options to achieve an edge that you might be satisfied with in your home workshop since the invention of the electric motor, home electrification and more recent developments in abrasive technology. Go with whatever rings your bell and leave us OCDers to keep ringing ours...

I sharpen a lot of blades of one sort and another for which I use a wide variety of sharpening methods. I use whichever method gets the job done most efficiently, but when I need to refresh an edge on one of my traditional Japanese hand forged kitchen knives I get out my dozen or so manmade and natural water stones and use some of those. That feels right for those blades and that rings my bell when I'm sharpening them!

I wonder if honing a blade on a stone is like Bebe's love of smoking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm3qBSHkoow

Its funny. The number of second hand chisels I have purchased in recent years, to replace my fifty year old ones that have been used and abused to an extent where they no longer present a threat even to the softest of timbers, all seem to arrive in a less than perfectly sharpened condition. In fact, some are so poorly sharpened it becomes blatently obvious why they have been put up for sale. Burnt, rounded over, chipped, rough backs are all part of the same problem. Lack of skill. It takes time to master freehand stone sharpening and the longer you use jigs the longer it takes to master freehand if at all. That is not to say jigs are useless, quite the contrary. A jig will allow the novis to compete with the master but the master can do it either way. My eyesight is crap. To set up and fine tune a jig is a blur. To squirt a bit of water on a wetstone and figure eight a chisel or plane blade is second nature.
Sharp vs Scary Sharp: I'll take scary sharp any day. It's amazing how much easier and precise it is to work a tool the better the edge and the better the steel.

Originally Posted by ErrolFlynn

I see a lot of threads talking about stones. Different types, price, value, colour. I suspect I’m treading sacred ground, but is it really such a big deal?

All the thing does is scrape some metal off your blade to give it an edge. Much like a grinder or belt sander will. Or any stone. Plus the fact, unless you’ve got a jig/gadget to keep the blade at a constant angle while using the stone, you risk honing with one stroke then blunting on the next. Then if you dig a hole in the stone all your blades will be rounded.

You should continue to sharpen tools using your current method and never let anyone convince you otherwise. Why even ask the question?

There's an old saying that if you ever find yourself lost in the wilderness, far from known civilisation, with little hope of rescue, just get out your knife and start sharpening it. Someone will be along in no time to tell you you're doing it wrong

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi 419. Google "worksharp". I think that us what you are describing.

That's it, but somewhat more expensive than I'd pay. It's heading into Tormek territory.

I reckon an angle grinder; a couple of hose clamps to hold it; a tool rest; and a digital angle finder could produce a satisfactory equivalent for the budget conscious. The main doubt in this idea is whether angle grinder shafts and discs run true, because if there is any wobble from flat it won't work well (not unlike my Scheppach), and that would be where the value in the Worksharp is. I've spent a fair amount of time cutting with angle grinder 1mm discs freehand and looking down on them in the cut and they seem to run true, but that's not necessarily at the level of precision required for grinding edged tools. Maybe something to add to my large list of possibly not brilliant ideas to be tried out some time.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Why even ask the question?

Because it comes up so often in the forum. I'm a curious type. Nothing more.

You see, up until recently, and that was when I went to Bunnings to buy one a few weeks ago I discovered that there was a choice of three different types. Wow. Confusion. I had thought there was only one type of stone. The thing that comes from some factory. And I was of the view that any old stone will do. I bought a middle-of-the-road stone.

The last time I bought one, and damn it, I couldn't find it when I went looking (I hope it hasn't been chucked), must have been about forty years ago. I don't recall a selection being available in the store back then. It was a small store. So, I was surprised that there is such a range available now. And a large range at that, if you hunt them up. And of course, with so many different types there seems to be discussion as to their value. So, I wonder if there is any real difference between them. Perhaps its a bit like our taste in wine. Some like sweet. Some like dry.

Originally Posted by ErrolFlynn

I see a lot of threads talking about stones. Different types, price, value, colour. I suspect I’m treading sacred ground, but is it really such a big deal?

All the thing does is scrape some metal off your blade to give it an edge. Much like a grinder or belt sander will. Or any stone. Plus the fact, unless you’ve got a jig/gadget to keep the blade at a constant angle while using the stone, you risk honing with one stroke then blunting on the next. Then if you dig a hole in the stone all your blades will be rounded.

I think in time, you'll find that there is one true thing in your statement here - it really doesn't matter which stones you use, and as a side note, spending more money on something or a "kit" of many stones doesn't yield better results (sharper, faster, finer, etc) and in some cases, the pricey stones can be a poor match for certain steels - especially steels with surplus vanadium when $10 of diamond lapidary stuff will do a far better finishing job.

But the idea that you'll roll an edge over honing by hand is something that's pretty easily worked past with some skill. I doubt anyone who does a lot of freehand honing by hand allows edge variance of more than a degree. I don't mean a schlub like paul sellers rounding over edges, but rather legitimate advanced amateurs or professionals.

most professionals have some preference for the feel of stone they like - at least the few there are working by hand - and don't confuse people who teach classes with professionals who actually do work. You'll get from the "teacher" types what they want their students to have - as in, something good for beginners so that they can get on with class and keep people paying. Legitimate professionals tend to use a pretty small kit.