Thread: Veritas Mk II honing guide problem

I use the Veritas MkII for plane blades all the time, but gave up using it on chisels altogether for exactly the reasons you describe. Even if you are very careful to tighten the clamp screws evenly, anything more than very light pressure will cause the chisel to skew round slightly.

Instead I got the Richard Kell honing guide for chisels:

RICHARD KELL Honing Guide

By its very design, this honing guide always keeps the bevel square.

Thought as much.

If they'll let me, I'll return the Mk II to Carbatec tomorrow. The problem is that the bronze rolling wheel has been scratched up nicely by the course Sigma stone, so they might not take it.

On the other hand, I don't want to pay $90 for something that's no use to me at all.

For plane irons, I'll continue to use the Eclipse. With a stop marked on my bench, it's quicker to set up than the Mk II anyway, and I'm quite happy with the result. It also lets me get a slightly convex bevel without paying $35 for a special attachment.

For chisels, I might get that Kell honing guide. Costs the same as the Mk II.

Hi Eddie

There are a few reasons why the bevels are being ground out-of-square, and none of them directly caused by the Mk II (which I have used from pre-production times).

The more common cause of skew grinding is uneven pressure between the two hold downs. One should always set the honing guide, try it briefly to look for a wear pattern, then adjust and try again.

The second most common cause is the chisel itself. If the back of the chisel is not flat, then it will pivot on this point. A combination of #1 and #2 can make for a bigger problem.

I must say that I have rarely experienced problems with the Mk II. It is reliable. Check out user-error before blaming the tool.

Regards from Perth

Derek

You're right of course. What was that about the poor craftsman?

I'll persevere.

In those cases where the problem is caused by unflat chisel fronts, what can I do?

Will all due respect, I think you'll struggle to get the Mk II to work on chisels for anything more aggressive than just touching up microbevels. Just about everyone I know who has the Mk II has come to the same conclusion. That's at least half a dozen woodworkers, with a wide range of experience. I've had some correspondence with Lee Valley on this (including them sending out a new clamping bar for me to try).....

I just tried clamping a (perfectly flattened) 1/2" LN chisel in my Mk II. I took great care to ensure that the two clamping knobs applied even pressure - I'm well aware of this issue. The chisel can be moved around under the clamps with only light pressure, so the chances of it staying aligned when sharpening are not good. Note that if you repeatedly tighten the clamps up really hard on narrow chisels in an attempt to hold them, you will eventually put a distinct bend in the clamp bar, making it unusable for plane blades as well.

Once you go below a 1/2" chisel, e.g. 1/4" or less, the clamping surface for the Mk II becomes even smaller, so the clamping becomes even less effective. If you're going to have to get a different honing guide for your smaller chisels, you may as well use it for all of them.

The Kell guide gets around this problem (it clamps on the edges of the chisel), but this does mean it will only work on chisels with parallel sides. That covers the majority, but you may come across a few that won't fit. Be aware also that it is a bit fiddly to use until you get the hang of it - at some bevel angles, and with narrower chisels, it can be tough to find somewhere to put your fingers....

Never had a problem with the MkII for chisels of any size, not saying there might be an issue or not for yourself, but:

• if you first locate the chisel using the bevel set-up make sure its tight against the jig and centred which you then remove; and

• and is tightened properly.

Then you shouldn't have a problem. I love the MkII as for me it's idiot proof and that makes my life happier.

I agree Waldo.
I use the Mk II for everything and haven't had a problem.
I also have the skew jig for the Mk II and it is great. Because the skewed blades are held at an angle in the Mk II you would think they would be easier to bump out of line but I haven't had a problem there either. I'm not really helping much am I? Just my experience with the Mk II guide.

Interesting. Seems from the net that quite a few people have had this issue.

Personally, I've found that being fastidious with ensuring the clamping bar is under even pressure helps a lot. I thought I was being careful before, but you have to do each side really only a half turn at a time, and keep an eye on it from below.

In this way, I clamp it as tightly as I comfortably can.

Now, it works fine even for the 1/4 chisel provided I don't apply too much pressure.

This is fine for the King stones (which don't require pressure at all really) but not great for the ceramic #120, which is what I really wanted it for. Also, the old Titans with uneven tops still won't behave themselves.

Nevertheless, it's growing on me...

I think much deeper jaws might help.

What experiences have others had? I'm especially concerned about bending the clamping bar, because I've been using lots of pressure to keep the small chisels in place.

never had a problem with the MKII. Perfect straight out of the box, hair shaving mirror polished bevels on chisels and plane blades

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

Interesting. Seems from the net that quite a few people have had this issue.

Personally, I've found that being fastidious with ensuring the clamping bar is under even pressure helps a lot. I thought I was being careful before, but you have to do each side really only a half turn at a time, and keep an eye on it from below.

In this way, I clamp it as tightly as I comfortably can.

Now, it works fine even for the 1/4 chisel provided I don't apply too much pressure.

This is fine for the King stones (which don't require pressure at all really) but not great for the ceramic #120, which is what I really wanted it for. Also, the old Titans with uneven tops still won't behave themselves.

Nevertheless, it's growing on me...

I think much deeper jaws might help.

What experiences have others had? I'm especially concerned about bending the clamping bar, because I've been using lots of pressure to keep the small chisels in place.

over tightening. Just firm fingertight is all thats needed, then gentle with the honing. I work with chisels every day for a living. Reckon i only pull the veritas out about 4 times max per year with little touch ups inbetween with a hand DMT hone.

The problem is, I don't want to go gentle with the honing.

I'd like to use the guide on very low grit ceramic stones as an alternative to a grinder.

Takes twice as long, but it's far cheaper, cleaner, quieter and takes less space.

But they do need a lot of pressure.

Still, if I'm using the guide for something other than what it's designed for (heavy pressure) I suppose I shouldn't complain that it doesn't do what I want. It's perfect otherwise.

But, unless I tighten it very hard, the smaller chisels - and the Titans with the unflat tops - skew even under very soft pressure.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Eddie

There are a few reasons why the bevels are being ground out-of-square, and none of them directly caused by the Mk II (which I have used from pre-production times).

The more common cause of skew grinding is uneven pressure between the two hold downs. One should always set the honing guide, try it briefly to look for a wear pattern, then adjust and try again.

The second most common cause is the chisel itself. If the back of the chisel is not flat, then it will pivot on this point. A combination of #1 and #2 can make for a bigger problem.

I must say that I have rarely experienced problems with the Mk II. It is reliable. Check out user-error before blaming the tool.

Regards from Perth

Derek

What he said I've happily used the Mk II on my Japanese chisels where the back and top aren't always parallel and plane blades which are parallel and had no issues at all, even on an X-Coarse DMT. I keep as many fingers as possible pressing down right on the end of the blade and always get a fast, even grind.

I'm doing better now. There's a knack to it after all.

Mainly, I've started using much lighter pressure, but going faster, on the heavier stone. Takes a little longer, but not frustratingly so.

Still tend to slip with the 1/4', but I can live with that.

Nifty little device. Now I've got used to using it, I don't know how I ever went without it...

Bad craftsman blames his tools, after all.

I recently visited CarbaTec in Melbourne to get an eclipse type honing guide as I had had problems with the blade clamping system on my Veritas II. In a discussion with the sales fellow there he mentioned that he thought from the design of the clamp bar that there were cavities in them that may have been intended to take rubber inserts that would bear on the blade being sharpened. If you take the guide apart you will see the cavities on both faces of the clamp bars. Other types of honing guides on their rack have thin rubber strips on the clamping surface and when I can next sharpen my jointer blade I will attempt to insert some rubber strips to overcome the most frustrating problem I have sharpening.