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Thread: Carba-tec tenoning jig
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20th July 2006, 10:38 AM #16
Thanks groggy, I couldn't find it on my quick search of the Jet site.
The answer is on page 5.
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20th July 2006, 05:00 PM #17
When I read the above remarks, I took my CT tenon jig out of the box and tested it. Perfect tenons. Measured with a digital vernier and it is accurate to about 0.02mm. That is accurate when working with wood. Will still be making some fine tenons with this jig in future. The cuts are soooo smoothe.
Regards
Les
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20th July 2006, 08:19 PM #18
Thanks to all who have made suggestions. The consensus from those who own the Carba-tec jig seems to be they are operable and work well, and that I got a dud. That's useful to know, and I have some comments on what I've learned along the way about these jigs.
I downloaded the Jet manual from Groggy's link, and also downloaded the manual from www.grizzly.com in the USA for their tenoning jig H7583, which is practically identical to the Carba-tec version. The Jet model is a slightly different make. Grizzly publish and post their own manuals for all their Asian imports, always really nice - previously I've downloaded their manual for their version of the Hafco 12"x36" metal lathe, much better than the manual that actually came with the lathe. Check them out. Anyway, the two manuals have given me some ideas.
The Carba-tec version needs to be (or at least can be) aligned to the blade face both by aligning the guide bar (that sits in the mitre gauge slot) and also the guide rod that runs beside the screw adjuster on the top carriage. Unfortunately the Carbatec jig I received is a bit of a factory reject, in that although I can take up the original 5mm error (right on the edges of the tolerances though), the base is noticeably skewed to the blade (no real practical effect but looks ugly), and also the guide rod has to be set off-square as well. It has to be set off square because, also as with the Jet model, the top carriage bears on the guide rod not by some kind of machined slot or adjustable bearing saddle but just sits down on inverted V's cast raw into the carriage. So unless you're lucky and got a carriage casting that happened to cool and cure just so, adjustment will mean skewing the guide rod some degree off square. Again, although not a practical issue it is a bit yuk, when you know it could be done better. In my original posting on this topic yesterday evening I also mentioned a very sloppy screw collar, which again gives me the shudders (why can't it be done properly?) also doesn't actually make a material effect on the alignment. To minimise the racking I had mentioned, you have to turn the micro-adjustment assembly to its flattest position before tightening the grub screw. However racking is always a possibility during set-up given the design of the carriage bearing (as described above) - you just have to hope that when you tighten the lock lever it all ends up with the job square to the blade. But, others say it works.
As to what I'll be doing, I'll take the Carba-tec one back and although there is not much in it, will opt for the Jet model. At least its guide bar sits in a milled slot so should be aligned already, leaving only one adjustment, that of the guide rod. A little bit classier than the Carba-tec version, although not much. Thought about going with the MDF home-made version but somehow just don't see it happening - already I've got a long list of gunnaduits.
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20th July 2006, 09:09 PM #19
Hi Gunnaduit
I have the same Carba-tec tenon jig as yours. Mine works perfectly. That is the short answer. I know that I have tuned it over the years - off the top of my head I cannot say how - I don't use it very often, in fact I do not use the tablesaw much (rarely) for tenons. I may do so in the future, however. Why? Because all my timber is hand-thicknessed and, as a result, none if it is perfectly equal in thickness. This makes a jig like this a waste of time - unless you like resetting it each time. However, I recently became the proud owner of a Delta thicknesser, so I will give it a go again and reconsider its worth.
The point of my writing this is that I read so much nonsense (the polite word) about the need for "precision" with tenon jigs. Yeah, I need to build a laser into mine in order to get it to work. Yeah, right! I bought the Carba-tec jig (identical to the Delta?) because I was seduced by the "idea" of precision, and because Norm uses one. Before this I made one for myself from a few pieces of MDF. It uses the tablesaw fence for tracking and adjustment. And you know what - it is as accurate at the carba-tec one! Here is a picture:
<center> <div><img src="http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=729&d=1066787616" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>
The thread is at: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ead.php?t=5885
If I use a machine to cut tenons, my preferred one is a bandsaw. I cut close to the line, then use a handplane (usually a Stanley #140 skew block plane) to fine tune it. This takes a minute to do, so time is not a real issue. Alternatively, I will cut them with a tenon saw, and again fine tune with a plane.
What I save is the set up time required for a jig. I wonder - this is a question for all - just how many of you are able to cut all your tenons (for all your stretchers) using just one setting on the tenon jig? If you have to reset it, then the advantage of one is nullified. These jigs are only really useful for stretchers of identical thickness and where you have many to cut. That is the circumstance under which I would use one.
So, if you accept this, and you still want a tenon jig for the tablesaw, then all one needs to build is the simple version (not original) I have pictured above.
I recognise that my views are a product of using handtools by preference. I suspect that the reliance on machines does tend to blunt the brain.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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20th July 2006, 09:56 PM #20
Further to my comment above, I looked at the manual that came with the CT jig. The first page introduction says "Your new 34-183 tennoning jig ...".
In fact one of the Delta tenon jig model numbers is "34-183". I downloaded the Delta manual and the jig is in fact 100% identical - except for the badge. My own CT jig was parallel to the blade as it came from the box. The only adjustment required was to set the plate at 90deg to the table. As stated above - test cuts were fantastic.
Gunnadult - I suggest that you return yours as you said you would. What you have experienced is not the norm and should not be tolerated. I am sure that CT will understand.
Regards
Les
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20th July 2006, 09:58 PM #21
Derek,
what blade do you use on the bandsaw to cut tenons?
Regards
Les
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20th July 2006, 10:53 PM #22
Hi Les
The bandsaw blade is a 3/4" 3tpi I use for resawing. UK-made, from Carba-tec.
Regards
Derek
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20th July 2006, 11:10 PM #23
My Carbatec tenon jig worked very well straight from the box and still turns out parallel accurate tenons without any hassle. I went to the shed to get the "instructions" in case they helped out here but, for the very first time, I noticed that the instructions are titled TENONING JING. I think that says it all!
Fletty
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20th July 2006, 11:38 PM #24
Interesting points, fellas. Les, I also found some stuff on the Delta jig, aka Carbatec jig, aka 'generic mail order tenoning jig' (or even Fletty's 'jing'); the reviews on Amazon.com (yep, they sell tenoning jigs as well as novels) were 50% horror stories of warped castings etc., 50% claiming theirs is fine. How does it all figure?
Derek, thanks for your comments ... I was aware from an old thread of yours you had got one of these and it worked fine. I've also enjoyed reading many of your posts on this forum and articles in oldtoolsshop.com on hand tools. Your ethos is spot on -- I mean, what's all this 'darkside' stuff I keep coming across?? Its not bronze age druid sacrifices or medieval wretches in damp stone hovels or something, as you know, its more like the difference between belting tunes on a guitar and programming a track on a sequencer. Nothing like the control of a finessed hand tool cutting under balanced pressure. My philosophy has been to try and avoid a jumble of large mdf jigs stacked precariously up on top of the dexion shelves (that's where the blackwood should be); still hoping my array of heirloom sharp tools plus a modicum of big motors and sparing accessories will do most of what's necessary. I do appreciate the precision of the tablesaw though; frankly it does a better job than me with the backsaw. So there's the reasoning of going with the metal jig, rather than it being a case of falling to roaming groups of incrajig cult members.
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18th March 2021, 07:52 PM #25New Members
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- Mar 2021
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- Perth Western Austalia
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Plans micro-adustable tenoning jig
Can you please send me a copy of the plans for the micro-adustable tenoning jig.
Many thanks,
Ray Dallin
[email protected]
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19th March 2021, 02:24 PM #26
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27th April 2021, 03:30 PM #27
I worked at CT in the late 90s, they sold the Delta jig which at the time I think was made in the US.
A year later they started selling the CT jig, identical except made in China.
I bought one and forgot about it, finally used it last year, worked ok no great hassle to set up.
H.Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)
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