Thread: Chainsaw kicks when pull starting

Originally Posted by BobL

What about the saw on the ground and the foot partially through the trigger handle?

Yeah I was not saying it was the only method, just that is acceptable as distinct from the cowboys' way.

When I am cold starting with the choke and the primer and all that stuff I do the foot bit. When I am in the field, clearing up, often with uneven ground and logs everywhere, I use the thigh hold method. I thought of it myself, found it worked but worried about its safety, then realised it was an accepted way to do it, talked of by others.

You can end up with a bit of a bruise on the inside leg. But if you get it right even that does not happen. Like firing a shotgun maybe....

Originally Posted by REALOldNick

You can end up with a bit of a bruise on the inside leg. But if you get it right even that does not happen. Like firing a shotgun maybe....

You fire a shotgun from between your thighs !?!?!?!?!!!


Must have some massive leg muscles

HAH!

Now I bet that somewhere on youtube....

Originally Posted by REALOldNick

Thanks for all the input and sorry for my any hissy fit.

I take on board all the stuff about compression and it makes sense. I am just disappointed that I have had so many saws and other small two strokes, and never had to worry about approaching a start with such care, determination and not a little trepidation. I know that every start should be approached with firmness and the right attitude, but with all other saws I could learn the feel of a start. With this one every one is a crap-shoot. I guess it's about creating too high a compression to max the power for the unit, to make it sell.

Serious question ... can a decompression valve be (carefully) fitted after-the-fact?

I have an old 076 and the decomp valve just makes life easy.

Paul.

What is happening is the motor is stopping on a compression stroke , hence when you go to restart the saw you are pulling against a loaded cylinder.
this will cause the symptoms you have described.

Jeff

Sorry for the negative, but as a qualified chain-saw instructor, holding a chain-saw between your thighs is NOT an accepted starting position. Just as "drop" starting has been banned for years.
On the deck with a foot in the hand-grip, please.

As for the locking up during pull starting, check the starting mechanism and recoil hub bushing first. If it is firing early and kicking (not chain kick-back), check the timing.
Cheers

Originally Posted by Rig30mechanic

Sorry for the negative, but as a qualified chain-saw instructor, holding a chain-saw between your thighs is NOT an accepted starting position. Just as "drop" starting has been banned for years.
On the deck with a foot in the hand-grip, please.

As for the locking up during pull starting, check the starting mechanism and recoil hub bushing first. If it is firing early and kicking (not chain kick-back), check the timing.
Cheers

If you read the latest chainsaw operators manuals (eg Stihl) the between the legs method is still a recommended method.
If it was not a recommended method they would definitely not say this as they would be legally liable for any injuries.

More telling still. the Australian Standards Association document 2727-1997, "Chainsaws—Guide to safe working practices" states the following.

RECOMMENDED STARTING METHOD FOR CHAINSAWS ABOVE THE GROUND
(i) Hold the rear handle of the chainsaw between the lower thighs and grasp the
front handle with the left hand. Apply chain brake.
(ii) Keep the arm on the front handle in a locked (straight) position.
(iii) Operate the starter with the right hand.

If you can point to any higher authorities than these then I would be interested to see it.

Originally Posted by BobL

If you read the latest chainsaw operators manuals (eg Stihl) the between the legs method is still a recommended method.
If it was not a recommended method they would definitely not say this as they would be legally liable for any injuries.

More telling still. the Australian Standards Association document 2727-1997, "Chainsaws—Guide to safe working practices" states the following.

RECOMMENDED STARTING METHOD FOR CHAINSAWS ABOVE THE GROUND
(i) Hold the rear handle of the chainsaw between the lower thighs and grasp the
front handle with the left hand. Apply chain brake.
(ii) Keep the arm on the front handle in a locked (straight) position.
(iii) Operate the starter with the right hand.

If you can point to any higher authorities than these then I would be interested to see it.

That just sounds very odd to me. As rig30mechanic said I've always used the on the ground method. OP's problem could be fuel. Too much and it'll feel like lock up.

Originally Posted by DoctorWu

That just sounds very odd to me . . ..

It's not odd at all. I can think of many situations where putting the saw on the ground might be pretty silly. Eg the ground is covered in water or mud, working on a steep slope, in a confined space, dangling from a rope in a tree etc.

I always teaching the on the ground method first but then operators need to know how to safely use the between the legs method in case they get caught in these other situations.

Originally Posted by REALOldNick

Yeah I was not saying it was the only method, just that is acceptable as distinct from the cowboys' way.

When I am cold starting with the choke and the primer and all that stuff I do the foot bit. When I am in the field, clearing up, often with uneven ground and logs everywhere, I use the thigh hold method. I thought of it myself, found it worked but worried about its safety, then realised it was an accepted way to do it, talked of by others.

You can end up with a bit of a bruise on the inside leg. But if you get it right even that does not happen. Like firing a shotgun maybe....

It depends on what your comfortable with. I'm left-handed, using drills,grinders and of course chainsaws is more of a challenge when the tool isn't designed for use with either hand. As for starting safely I prefer the foot in the handle, if I'm up the tree I drop start, if I'm surrounded by branches when dicing up a felled tree then I'll drop start. personal preference. As for the original problem you asked for help with I'd drop the oil-fuel ratio back to factory recommendation, and if it locks up again, I'd not pull it through the lock-up, take out the plug and see if it shoots out fuel when you pull it. It could be that the carby is leaking fuel into the top of the piston. also as you know the fuel-tank isn't vented (so we can use them upside down) so try loosening the fuel cap if the motors hot and you're not going to use it for a while. (stops the heat from the motor expanding the fuel in the tank and forcing it through the carby) Hope this works for you, if it was timing it would be a bugger to start every time and probably run like a three-legged goat all the time.

Originally Posted by marquetry

It depends on what your comfortable with.

I disagree. I know one operator who is comfortable doing one handed drop starts with small saws; ie drop the saw just hanging onto the starter cord and when the saw comes bouncing back let go of the started cord and and catch the trigger handle . While the one handed drop start is obviously asking for trouble the two handed drop start method also has a higher risk because the dropping arm is not locked straight. This is why any drop start are not recommended methods. If someone teaches drop starts in a work place and something goes wrong I'll bet Work Safe will hold the instructor or employer responsible.

Originally Posted by BobL

I disagree. I know one operator who is comfortable doing one handed drop starts with small saws; ie drop the saw just hanging onto the starter cord and when the saw comes bouncing back let go of the started cord and and catch the trigger handle . While the one handed drop start is obviously asking for trouble the two handed drop start method also has a higher risk because the dropping arm is not locked straight. This is why any drop start are not recommended methods. If someone teaches drop starts in a work place and something goes wrong I'll bet Work Safe will hold the instructor or employer responsible.

The only time to let go of the handle is when the chainsaw is switched off. If you have to start a saw off the ground engage the chain-brake. If someone handed me a saw without a chain-brake I'd refuse to use it. the things don't have any friends, they'll attack anyone for no reason at all. (part of the instructions I was given regarding chainsaw safety) As for dropping the saw and hanging onto the pull-chord, that wasn't mentioned.(probably figured we weren't that dumb)

Originally Posted by marquetry

. . . the things don't have any friends, they'll attack anyone for no reason at all. (part of the instructions I was given regarding chainsaw safety) . . .

I like it. and agree with you about the chain brake being on at the start (except on a mill as I generally take brakes off my milling saws).

I have no problem using a saw without a chain brake but if there is a choice of one with or without I'll take the one with.

Originally Posted by BobL

I like it. and agree with you about the chain brake being on at the start (except on a mill as I generally take brakes off my milling saws).

I have no problem using a saw without a chain brake but if there is a choice of one with or without I'll take the one with.

I grew up on a Cane farm just north of Mackay Qld, back then I was driving tractors by the age of 10, helping the old man blow stumps using diesel and fertilizer, helping to burn the cane for harvest, (mostly putting out spot-fires). Chain-brakes weren't heard of back then. I was taught to respect any thing that can hurt you. I own 2 chainsaws a Mc Cullock and a Partner, the Partner doesn't have a brake but it's only used on big stuff so there's always clear space around for a ground start. Anyway this discussion seems to have wandered from the original topic of why that chainsaw locks up, I hope some of the input has been useful to sort out the problem.