Thread: Comments on makita lithium cordless drill?

Bill

have/having the same issues myself.
I know the NiMH didn't do the take over from the NiCd as was predicted by some but there definitely is a big swing towards the Li batteries on all but the DeWalt front (another 12-18 months I'm told).

I'm looking at an impact driver and the Li ones (prob the panasonic at this stage but maybe the Hitachi) have about 50% more life (up to 3.5AmpHour) compared to 2-2.5 of the NiCads and significantly lighter.

I'm also keen to get some feedback from those who have used.

I can't answer specifically in relation to Makita but I bought a Bosch 10.8 volt lithium screwdriver and feel that lithium batteries are significantly better than Ni-Cad or NiMH.

They keep their charge really well and I am continually surprised to find the tool still useable after months of sitting in the cupboard.

The charge can also be topped up at any time without having to fully discharge the battery. This means that anytime you take a break or use another tool, you can sit the drill/screwdriver in its charger and it will probably be fully charged when you get back to it. (charging times are quite short). Even if it isn't fully charged, you can use it some more and resume charging later. There is none of the so-called memory effect that NiCads suffer from.

They haven't been available long enough to gauge their long term viability but, theoretically at least, lithium ion batteries lose about 20% of their capacity each year starting from manufacture. That would suggest about 3 years maximum useful life. I've had the Bosch for 9 months and can't notice any degradation yet so am hopeful it will last longer than that.

Coldamus is pretty much on the money

Being a photographer this is important stuff to me so I found out about it a few years ago now.

NiCad and NiMhd are nice but have a "memory" effect. This is when you recharge a half used battery. It remembers this halfway point and goes dead on you when it is in fact half charged. So you lose capacity.

Lithium is the bees knees provided it is not one of those lithiums they sell you in the shops which is just a fancy bit of branding on an alchaline battery.

Litium batteries will go dead after a period. They say 3 years. Mind you I have a Lithium Battery in my Nikon D2H and that is still going and according to the software still 80% good after close to 4 years.

Studley

A battery made from Lithium ion will have the same Amps capacity for significantly less weight and size of battery.

i.e. a 12V, 10Amp hour NiMH might weigh 6 kg, whereas a 12V, 10A/H LI would be @ 1 - 1.5 kg.

This means that some Li battery manufacturers can reduce the size of the case, or increase the Amp capacity, or fill the empty space with electronics and regulators to allow you to use your old chargers.

I've been told (by a electronics equipment manufacturer that is changing over to Li) that the Li batteries will have a set number of times that you can charge the battery. For example theirs take 300 charges.

After that the battery is stuffed.

They advised that the battery be allowed to fully discharge then recharged, if you want to maximise the battery lifecycle.

This is probably worthy of further investigation, although the battery replacement cost is not a real biggie, no sense in needlessly wasting the battery/worlds resources when a charged spare could always be on hand.

Other than that, what Coldamus said is correct....

One shop I frequent had problems with the first lot of Makita LiIon batteries - I can't recall if Makita did a recall on the lot or not, but they seem to think the current product is working OK.

Here's where the next generation of Li cordless batteries are headed. Not sure which if any power tool manufacturers have elected to use these, but you can bet it wont be long before one of them bites, then the others will follow in the rush to stay at the cutting edge & not lose out to the competition.http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/power.html

Memory effect in Ni-Cads is salesman speak for "The individual cells in this battery pack are not matched for capacity so it will die an early death that we want you to think is your problem so you won't bring it back" (read it from the expert)

And you can read all about the problems with Li-ion batteries here.

In short, keep your fingers crossed that you can get freshly made Li-ion batteries to suit your device in 2-3 years time, or be ready to throw it out.

Yes memory effect is a myth, but it sells big budget chargers.

No - memory effect is not a myth.

NiCds which are not fully charged and discharged in cycles will develop a memory and after about 30 cycles they progressively resist charging beyond a certain level.

There are two big problems with modern power tools.
First, that they are made with six to eight cells in series and if one of those cells fails - the battery pack fails unless you take that "failed" cell out and cycle it repeatedly until it is recharged. Then you need to re-assemble the pack. That can be done because I've done it.
Secondly, the Chinese chargers are made to a budget and most do not include cutout protection when they have reached capacity - and HEAT kills most battery packs if they stay on charge for longer than 3-4 hours.

I recently repaired my wife's Ozito hedge trimmer cells this way and now I have the charger on a Woolworth's timer so I cannot exceed the 3.5hours charging.

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Here's where the next generation of Li cordless batteries are headed. Not sure which if any power tool manufacturers have elected to use these, but you can bet it wont be long before one of them bites, then the others will follow in the rush to stay at the cutting edge & not lose out to the competition.http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/power.html

This is the system that dewalt uses for its new 36 volt tools.

Dewalt incidentally are also in the process of creating 18 volt lithiums that are compatable with their existing tools.

Originally Posted by wormdrive

This is the system that dewalt uses for its new 36 volt tools.

Dewalt incidentally are also in the process of creating 18 volt lithiums that are compatable with their existing tools.

WormDrive

Interesting... where does this info come from?? Not doubting you but I find contradicting info (as we always do)

if this new a123 system is what dewalt are using for their 36volt stuff and it can charge in 5 minutes why are they sstill supplying a 1 hour charger with their system ... cost??

secondly I was told by a retailer in a good tool shop that dewalt aren't moving their 12-18volt stuff from NiCd for something like 15 months ... if you've got more reliable info I'd like to know as I'm in the market now.

Ramps,

I orinally read about the link between dewalt and a123 in Fine Homebuilding magazine, but I cannot find the article where I read this. Upon doing a google search I did find this link; http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm

As for the time frame for dewalts introduction of lithium 18v tools I don't know. It was oringinally a rumour that I saw on a US tool forum and I had it confirmed by the managing director of a well known japanese tool co. that itself happens to sell lithium powered tools. I do however think that they will be pretty quick getting to lithium. Tool co.'s and shops only ever try to sell what's on their shelves and not what's around the corner. Your retailer would simply not be privy to information of that nature.

If you wanted to hold off and not have to buy a new set of tools, if I were you I'd go on ebay and buy yourself some very reasonably priced NiCD's

On the question of a 5 minute charge, it might well be possible under perfect conditions, however these things can get hot with use so the one hour is for all conditions with a safety margin built in.

What we want are these tools: http://www.ridgid.com/xli/ read the paragraph carefully, they guarantee the batteries for the life of the original registered tool owner!! This guarantee has alot of people scratching their heads.

Originally Posted by wormdrive

Ramps,

I orinally read about the link between dewalt and a123 in Fine Homebuilding magazine, but I cannot find the article where I read this. Upon doing a google search I did find this link; http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm

As for the time frame for dewalts introduction of lithium 18v tools I don't know. It was oringinally a rumour that I saw on a US tool forum and I had it confirmed by the managing director of a well known japanese tool co. that itself happens to sell lithium powered tools. I do however think that they will be pretty quick getting to lithium. Tool co.'s and shops only ever try to sell what's on their shelves and not what's around the corner. Your retailer would simply not be privy to information of that nature.

If you wanted to hold off and not have to buy a new set of tools, if I were you I'd go on ebay and buy yourself some very reasonably priced NiCD's

On the question of a 5 minute charge, it might well be possible under perfect conditions, however these things can get hot with use so the one hour is for all conditions with a safety margin built in.

Ta WormDrive
I had a bit of a look at the online FHB site. The A123 cell features a couple of times on the "What you need to know about Lithion" Article in the Jun/Jul 06 FHB but there is no reference to it in the text. Even against the DeWalt tools. There is no mention of the A123 on the DeWalt Site only reference to nano-phosphate technology

Thanks for the heads-up still unsure whether I want to invest in the new technology or the old (which isn't significantly cheaper)

[QUOTE=Knurl;500440]No - memory effect is not a myth.


QUOTE]

It's a theory put forward that the cells develop a barrier if discharged to the same level and recharged. Maybe this could happen but getting the exact discharge everytime is hard to imagine. The real problem is incorrect charging which damages the cells and gets labelled as the memory effect.

Present definate proof it exists and maybe I'll consider changing my mind.