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  1. #1
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    Default Entry level hand tools - are "brands" worth the $20-$30 extra?

    I am looking to getting into a bit of wood working - very much a beginner but pretty keen if time and finances allow. Building a workbench and some other stuff while listening to the Ashes on the radio in the shed over Summer sounds perfect.

    Starting from more or less scratch, I need to get a few tools. I have cordless drill and orbital sander, but figure impact driver, jigsaw, circular saw are probably next. That's before I think about mitre saw and table saw I guess. That's another question.

    Looking around, it seems I can get a Ryobi for about $90, but the Makita is maybe $120-$130. Is it worth spending the little extra at this level on these types of tools, or do I save the $100 all up and put that towards some timber? I've read some good discussions why the cheaper Mitre Saws aren't worth it and probably looking at the $400 Makita. But does that apply here.

    Thanks for the advice.

    PS - Before you mention it - yep I am looking around for second hand stuff.

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  3. #2
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    Have a look at Paul Sellers vidios, Nothing wrong with hand tools to build a bench..
    I am learning, slowley.

  4. #3
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    Unless you're using them all day, every day, there's nothing wrong with low-end cordless. The main thing is to pick a brand that has everything you want so you're not stuck with multiple chargers and sets of batteries.

    I think Makita has the biggest range, but I've used some Ryobi cordless and it felt quite solid.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelQ View Post
    I am looking to getting into a bit of wood working - very much a beginner but pretty keen if time and finances allow. Building a workbench and some other stuff while listening to the Ashes on the radio in the shed over Summer sounds perfect.

    Starting from more or less scratch, I need to get a few tools. I have cordless drill and orbital sander, but figure impact driver, jigsaw, circular saw are probably next. That's before I think about mitre saw and table saw I guess. That's another question.

    Looking around, it seems I can get a Ryobi for about $90, but the Makita is maybe $120-$130. Is it worth spending the little extra at this level on these types of tools, or do I save the $100 all up and put that towards some timber? I've read some good discussions why the cheaper Mitre Saws aren't worth it and probably looking at the $400 Makita. But does that apply here.
    the most useful advice is probably -- only buy the tools you need "right now"

    If your "right now" is a work bench look at the design. What are the minimum tool requirements to build it?
    Remember that you can cross cut a 4x2 using a $15 big box handsaw.
    The last bench I built was from 4x2 softwood and construction grade ply. Tools used were a cordless circular saw, cordless drill, straight edge, a home made 90 degree jig, a couple of clamps and a box of #8 self driving screws. The cordless tools were both 18V Hitachis -- the drill was purchased as part of a drill / impact driver kit, the saw as a skin. And I got the ply supplier to cut the ply to size.

    So apart from measuring, layout and some hand tools you probably already have the tools needed to build a bench.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  6. #5
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    I second Ians advice,

    Buy what you need now and within your budget. No point (unless you like punishment) making your life difficult just because you want to buy a Makita mitre saw but can only afford a Ryobi now. Both will serve you quite well one may last longer than the other or may give more consistent results. Having said that there are alot of projects that do not require precise results. Eg I built a picket fence with an old Ryobi drop saw that I found in my dad's shed. The saw was about 10 years old and he had been using it to cut bricks to pave our 100 square meter back yard. Did it cut perfectly straight? nope did it run like an engine running on half its cylinders yep, did it do what I needed to do. Sure did. Once the fence was assembled you'll be hard pressed to notice the 1-2mm discrepancy.

  7. #6
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    What do you imagine will come off your work bench as things that you want?
    That might determine just how complicated your bench needs to be.
    That might determine just how complicated your tools need to be.

    tonzeyd has a story to tel. us in #5. I can totally believe that.

    I bought a 3/8" reversing hand drill. Then I needed a 10" Delta miter saw.

    DON'T buy a whole bunch of hand power tools just because everybody else has them.
    To Hello with me.
    Buy what you need, as you need it.

  8. #7
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    I'm with all of the above. Also, there would be some things you could "Cheap" out on and some things it might be worth spending a little extra on.

    For my situation, things like a cordless drill or a jig saw would be something to cheap out on... Jig Saws aren't overly accurate, and i don't need it for a hell of a lot of work, so i got an Ozito Corded. Cordless drill i went a ryobi 18V cordless (need another one though, only having 1 drill is a PITA!).

    Another way to save money is to buy Corded tools when you don't need them to be super portable. Things like a Random Orbital Sander i'm probably going to go mid range and corded, because I'm happy to run an extention cord if need be, and it needs to be/should be hooked up to a shop vac anyway so not exactly portable. Another problem with cordless is you have to stick to a brand to get the most out of the batteries or you end up paying a fortune.

    Some things you need to spend money on to get accuracy. I Cheaped out on a Sliding Compound Mitre Saw (Ozito) and can't get the damn thing to cut straight... I'm now in the market for a Table Saw (Jobsite as i have a small working space) so i'm saving my pennies for the DeWalt. Although being a beginner i can also see the benefits of having cheap and nasty too. you learn more. I don't trust a guide or the squareness of a tool based on the manufacturers labels... lesson learned courtesy of Ozito and some wonky looking joinery, I call it Abstract Joinery...

    Its an each to their own type of thing. Buy what you can afford and what you're comfortable spending. If you wait to buy a festool everything then it'll be 5 years before you're able to make anything. And if you're a beginner like me, i'd rather ruin/break/misuse a $100 something or other than ruin a $2000 something or other. As you get better, and if you still enjoy it, then start investing in quality if that's something you want to do.
    ​Coming Up With Complex Solutions to Non-Existent Problems Since 1985

  9. #8
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    Feb 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robson Valley View Post
    What do you imagine will come off your work bench as things that you want?
    That might determine just how complicated your bench needs to be.
    That might determine just how complicated your tools need to be.

    tonzeyd has a story to tel. us in #5. I can totally believe that.

    I bought a 3/8" reversing hand drill. Then I needed a 10" Delta miter saw.

    DON'T buy a whole bunch of hand power tools just because everybody else has them.
    To Hello with me.
    Buy what you need, as you need it.
    Yeah, growing up with my dad was a fun journey. He was one of those who came over to Australia with nothing more than the clothes on his back on a refugee boat. So the mindset of make do with what you have was very true. The saw is actually still alive and kicking my brother still uses it from time to time to do renovations on his rental properties (read dodgy DIY).

    Needless to say when i found it, it was in a very sorry state, took a while to figure out the best way to align the blade to cut as straight as possible as it was bent in all kind of strange ways, but i figured it still cut straighter than I could with a handsaw (and significantly faster), Plus as mentioned given that it was going to be going in a garden where nothing is parrallel or perpendicular with the fence no one noticed. In fact had all the neighbours in the cul de sac commented on how good everything looked including the chap across the road who had never spoken or waved at me since I moved in.

    Also depending on what you're making (and quantity) some unpowered hand tools i find are faster and more accurate then a powered version. eg i needed to cut a small cutout in a cabinet wall to accommodate a power point, by the time i'd secure the piece down, find an extension cable, check the jig saw over to make sure its in the correct settings/blade would be the same time as if i picked up a coping saw and cut the thing by hand and finished it up with some chisels.

  10. #9
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    crowie is offline Life's Good, Enjoy each new day & try to encourage
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    G'Day Michael,
    Being in the country, watch out for "yard sales"; "garage sales"; "clearance sales" or "deceased estate sales" as may of the older tools and equipment are still a great option, especially for a "newby" as you suggest you are.
    Also for the first bench consider a couple of old recycled solid core doors for the tip or similar, just have to knock a 4x2 frame to sit it on; I'm still using mine I built that way about 10yrs ago.
    Just my "2boobs" worth.
    Cheers, crowie

    PS - Once you've worked out what tools you really want, spend the extra on the what you can afford as they'll pay you back with good longevity...

  11. #10
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    Sometimes it is worth looking at what the "tradies" use and if you can talk to them. Their tools will get worked hard and abused, but you might also get some tips.
    Many will have the brand names, but I have seen some with Ryobi, AEG and even Ozito. Sometimes it will be because it is cheap, but sometimes it will be because if it breaks, gets wet (think outdoor work or plumbing), or stolen it is cheap to replace. The tool will still need to perform to the requirement but without the pricetag.

    I have started with cheap basic stuff and graduated to Makita cordless and Festool gear. Expensive, yes. Does the job, yes. Good quality, yes. A couple of my gardening tools are now also Makita so I do not need to drag out a cord.

  12. #11
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    I've met a couple of tradies who will only buy Ozito. Not because they feel like its better, but purely because its cheap and they add it to the cost of the quote and onsell/discard after completion of job. Logic being it should be reliable out of the box if not they'll just head back to the local bunnings and swap it over.

  13. #12
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    Had a contractor that always had the cheapest tools that you could get in his truck. At home he only had good gear.

    His logic was that good gear was always disappearing on site but nobody wanted the cheap stuff so it was always available, and nobody damaged his truck breaking in.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohdan View Post
    Had a contractor that always had the cheapest tools that you could get in his truck. At home he only had good gear.

    His logic was that good gear was always disappearing on site but nobody wanted the cheap stuff so it was always available, and nobody damaged his truck breaking in.
    That says it all!
    Kind Regards

    Peter

  15. #14
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    Hi

    The short answer is YES. If you can afford the extra dollars it is WORTH it. If you have to wait a little longer to save those few dollars, then I recommend you wait until you can afford the better tool. Many cheap tools will provide a satisfactory service. But quality will win out in the long run. If you want your tools to last, then the quality makes a DIFFERENCE.

    Over the years I have purchased quality and cheap tools. I STILL have the quality tools. Yes, it cost me many more dollars at the time of purchase but they are still operational. For example, an AEG router (much better quality then (circa late 70's) than now. I worked that router hard and it still works today! I have since purchased other routers, mainly for the 1/2" collet size.

    I have bought and used cheap cordless drills. The problem with most of the cheap cordless tools tends to be that the battery is flat when you want to use it. (Ozito, I'm looking at you!) I watched my roofing carpenter use his Makita cordless drill and impact driver under conditions I would not expect for a cordless tool, I was IMPRESSED (...and it takes a lot to impress me!). I was amazed at just how long his tools would work without having to recharge. I was so impressed I purchased a Makita drill and impact driver set. I am STILL impressed! I have not used either of these for about two months, but I know they will be ready to use instantly. I was so impressed with the drill/impact driver that I purchased another Makita cordless drill (the same model) You will be surprised at just how useful it is to have TWO cordless drills.

    I have always preferred quality over price. The old adage "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" remains true. You could think of it like this, would you prefer to buy TWO $90 drills or ONE $120 drill?

    My impression of the Makita range of cordless tools was so great, I purchased several more (they all use the same type of Li-ion battery of course). DON'T be fooled by the Ryobi adverts that promote the use of ONE battery across all tools! Yes, obviously the tools use the same battery, but it doesn't work out in real life like they portray in the advert. Try to have one battery per tool. In the short term you can buy just the skin and swap batteries but the swapping does become annoying very quickly and of course the battery drains quickly (with none stop use across multiple tools).

    Li-ion batteries are not a cheap item at $80 plus (depending on capacity) but the intelligent circuitry in Makita batteries helps them work longer before needing a recharge and (with a fast charger) helps them charge faster - in my case about 20 minutes from totally flat to fully charged (3 amp hour battery). Very rarely have I had a need to stop work because of a flat battery. I think of these cordless tools as though they were corded as the power seems to be there "forever".

    OK, so I have raved on about Makita and their quality, no doubt some of the other QUALITY tool manufacturers have similar capability. The whole point of my "raving" is that you will never regret buying a QUALITY tool. It will last you a lifetime and be ready and available when you need it - not so much with the cheap tools. Cheap tools have their place, but buyers have to make and live with the compromises cheap tools impose. I have had and used cheap tools, at the time they served their purpose - but not for very long.

    I would suggest that you review a range of tools and pick one of the quality brands and stick with that brand for the use of the same physical battery. For me personally I really dislike the green of Hitachi tools, but I expect the tools would be good. AEG look good and I think the quality is ok, again personally I don't think the AEG quality is as good as it used to be many years ago, but that probably applies to most tool brands. Milwaukee is another brand that does not impress me, but that's my personal preference (ok, I'm weird I don't like the colour or the brand name, but hey, that's just me ) ).

    I also suggest that you go to a proper tool store (in WA we have TOOLMART and BEYOND TOOLS) for a review of the tools and talk to a knowledgeable store person and see what they say.

    FWIW, in WA Ryobi and Ozito tools are specifically a Bunnings tool range, they are sold only by Bunnings. This can have its problems when you need a spare part. My Ryobi planer (yes, I know a cheap tool bought a quite a few years ago) sat in the workshop for about three years before I ever put it to use. The second time I tried to use it the toothed drive belt failed. I rang Ryobi to find a local service agent and was told had to order a spare through Bunnings. Bunnings advised that I would have to wait THREE days for the part. I was doing my own repair (simple job) and said to Bunnings that a three day wait was NOT acceptable. I demanded they take of the drive belt from their demo model and I would pick it up later that day. Bunnings complied.

    Makita and quality tool manufacturers have service agents that carry spare parts.

    So that's (more than) enough from me. Go out and buy the best tool you can afford go for quality over price wherever possible.

    Best wishes
    Kind Regards

    Peter

  16. #15
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    Buy once, cry once

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