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  1. #1
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    Default HILTI TE 17 handbook?

    Hello all, I've recently inherited a Hilti TE 17 hammer drill - well used, but seemingly working fine - but with no handbook. Not really sure how the chucks work on these and I'm trying to figure out if it has a hammer only function for chiseling etc.
    Can't find anything on the web other than this was one of their earliest models. Have emailed Hilti Australia too, but had no response after a week. Wondering if anyone has a handbook for one of these that I can copy, or knows where to get one?
    Cheers,
    Tony

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  3. #2
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    Hi Tony,

    there was never much of a handbook on the TE17. Its original carrying case rather came with a 12 page brochure, containing a few pages about the workings and the maintenance, with the remaining print being dedicated to the available accessories and their application. I have the machine, the case and the brochure, but this set is buried somewhere deep beneath a stockpile of tools in storage. Next time i'm delving into this pile and getting close enough to fetch it, i'll scan the manual for you and sent it through this forum.

    The machine itself is simple enough. Hilti introduced it in 1967 and so there's no electronics or left/right rotation option yet. Between the drill bajonet and the cast motor and gear housing is a rubber clad studded bajonet, surrounding the piston system. By rotating it and shoving it forward towards the drill bajonet (with a few centimeters of blank alloy cylinder becoming visible) you decouple the hammering mechanism, leaving you with a rotation-only machine. By shoving back and locking the rubber housing bajonet, you combine the rotation with the hammering function again. The machine offers no hammering-only function. For that you need special chisel bits with the coupling recesses having been fretted away on a lathe. These chisels in fact slip inside the drill bajonet coupler, meaning that the coupler turns round idly around the chisel shaft and only the hammering energy is transfered to the chisel tip or edge. This is not an elegant solution, but for short term makeshift jobs it suffices.

    The TE17 was Hilti's first hammer drill construction. The brothers Martin and Eugen Hilti started off their small scale machine parts manufacturing shed in Schaan (Liechtenstein) in 1941 and mainly catered for the Swiss textile industry. The brothers were keen weaponry fans and were good shots themselves. Upon learning about shockwave projectile propagation behaviour in solid materials (e.g. artillery shells or hardened steel nails in stone walls) they invented gunpowder driven systems to shoot fastening systems directly into stone without multi-blow hammering or pre-drilling. The development started in 1948 and resulted in the piston and powder cartridge type nail shooter in 1958, for which the main Hilti factory in Schaan was built in 1954.

    Contrary to popular believe, the pneumatic hammer drill was not invented by Hilti but by Skil in 1962. Skil's first large commercial hammer drill was the 726 from 1964. The Swiss firm Torna acquired production license rights from Skil USA and built the 726 as the Torna 765 for the European market, from 1965. Hilti acquired service and repair contract rights from Torna; Torna machines could hence be handed in at Hilti sales points for servicing. Hilti took over part of the Torna production in 1967 and a developed a smaller 5 kg version for its own brand. This was to become the TE17.

    The TE17 has become a bit of a legend on its own accord. The number is related to Hilti's very own advance capacity measuring system in concrete: the amount of cubic centimeters of concrete compactness grade B30 that can be drilled out in 1 minute.
    This way of measuring automatically takes the drill diameter into account: a smaller diameter penetrates quicker than a larger diameter drill, but the volume of material drilled out is roughly the same. So (e.g.) a TE22 achieves 22 cm3 per minute and a TE72 can manage 72 cm3. The TE72 has an alternative version, the TE60, with a higher rpm and a smaller compression cylinder (like the Hitachi DH38Y has the hi-rpm DH28Y alternative).

    The TE17 also pioneered Hilti's new patented bajonet drill coupler. To insert the drill, the machine was to be placed on its hind grip with the coupler sticking up. In this position the bajonet's outer bush could easily be slid backward, retracting two cylindrical couplers meant to fit two recessed grooves on either side of the drill shaft. After greasing the shaft and inserting it into the bajonet, the bajonet was to let go and sprung forward automatically. The drill bit was to be turned around until the coupler bodies clicked into the recesses and as a check, the drill had to be tested for approx 1/2 a centimeter of free play forward and backward. This play is necessary to relieve the bajonet itself of the hammering impact forces. Hilti named this bajonet coupler system TE-C and developed the heavier TE-Y version for larger diameter drills. Bosch was keen to take over this brilliantly simple and reliable bajonet solution for its own drills, and averted patent infringement problems by adding an additional slot in the shaft and calling their own shape SDS-Plus ("Steck-Dreh-Sitzt" or "Insert-Turn-Secured"). The copying trick was later pulled off by Bosch for the second time with the TE-Y bajonet: SDS-Max.

    The first TE17's have an all metal vintage drill bajonet coupler, with a gnurled bush. Later version have a larger plastic clad bajonet, that was also used on the TE22. The shaft and bajonet designs of the 17 and 22 are interchangeable. In the pics you see the vintage and the later bajonet. The TE22 as a successor featured a 520 Watts motor (450 Watts for the TE17) and rpm-electronics. The first TE22's were also full metal, later version had a nylon motor housing.

    Be sure to lightly grease the drill shaft before inserting it, it greatly reduces wear on the bajonet, the couplers, the drill shaft and the dust seal.

    The TE17 was so successfull that its size and build were copied many times over. Examples are the Makita HR2510 and the Hitachi DH25V and their predecessors. The TE17 and its larger sister TE72 greatly contributed to Hilti's fame in this field and were obviously even able to mask the fact that they were not Hilti's own original idea (although a bit of the masking was also the result of Hilti's own clever PR).

    It is not advised to take a Hilti hammer apart when you're not experienced in doing so and without having an assortment of spare parts ready for backup. Many parts are non-standard and are no longer made or sold by Hilti anyway. Many spares for the TE17, TE22 and TE72 are copies made in China. The TE17's bottom motor bearing is a sintered bronze sleeve and has unique sizes. Many ball and needle bearings have unique custom made sealing systems, because of the oil filling instead of grease lubrication. If your TE17 is in good nick and in any way deer to you, a servicing by a proper Hilti technician will pay off. He will check all seals and bearing and has the means to check on proper piston pressure, ensuring proper hammering force. A leaky Hilti is no fun at all. Is messes up its surroundings and oil dripped into the motor will definitely ruin it. If you're sure that a Hilti performs well and has a good fill of oil, the phrase "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" is very apt.

    success and greetings

    gerhard
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  4. #3
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    some additional pics. Sequence: Skil 726, Torna 765 (the brown thing is a leather strap, securing it in its carrying case), TE17, TE72, TE22 and its manual (the TE17 has a similar brochure), HR2510
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  5. #4
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    Wow, Gerhard, thats impresive. I used them for years just know they are almost unstopable.

    www.solidwoodfurniture.com.au

    A good edge takes a little sweat!!

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    Many thanks for your very detailed reply Gerhard. My Hilti is the same as the photo second down, from the top left, in your second post. Since writing my query, I've had a bit of a play around with the drill and worked out how the chuck system functions. I thought maybe the black disk on top of the main body was a function changer, but your response suggests otherwise. I'm disappointed it doesn't have a hammer-only function (it would be very useful in my current task of hacking out 12 joist housings in a double brick wall) but it works very well nonetheless, and with a fresh drill bit, eats through concrete like its made of cheese - unlike my domestic size Metabo which feels like it's made of cheese.
    I will take your advise re servicing and find a Hilti specialist, though it seems to be in pretty good nick for it's age and probably doesn't require any work for the moment.

    Thanks again for your help.
    Tony

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    Thanks for the compliments! The black disc on top of the gear housing is a screw cap with an o-ring seal, meant for draining and refilling the oil. It uses a double pin type spanner, as is used for disc tightening on angle grinders, but with different dimensions. Screw caps like these are used on most pneumatic hammers. Several heavy vintage models for all-day use, like those from Duss, Makita and Bosch, used to have inspection glasses as well, to make regular checks on the oil level easy.

    As for suspecting the disc to be a function changer, i can follow your line of thought, since on the TE72 there is a real function changer lever on the same spot, which has to be removed for the oil refill, so the lever doubles as a cap.

    For draining, a hammer is to be put upside down over some container tray until it stops dripping. It is important to respect the precise amount of refill oil, as advised by the manufacturer. Using the exact type of oil as suggested by the manufacturer, is also highly recommended.

    With grease filled machines like the Hitachis, the blackened used grease has to be wiped out and new grease is applied from a tube. The exact amount and the right type of grease do apply as for oil.

    Several German sellers offer ball bearing sets and original Hilti oil for TE17 renovation. In the pic you see these bearings (not the original Hilti ones, but close copies of them), a portion of oil and an exploded view, as put in the packet as a guide for DIY disassembly. If you look closely at the drawing you can see the unscrewed cap and its 0-ring, with the piston crank right underneath, without any coupling/decoupling mechanism to disengange rotation for hammering only. Should you ever want to change the oil yourself: a TE17 needs 40 milliliters of Hilti oil.

    gerhard
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    Hi Gerhard,

    I have been told by Hilti that they no longer supply oil for the TE17, do you know of a supplier, or could you please suggest an alternative.

    Peter.

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    Hi,

    that's a strange reply. What would be so special about the TE17's mechanism for it to require a different oil than (for instance) a TE22 or 52 or 72? If you make a list of all the requirements that this kind of oil has to cater for, it boils down to things like these:
    1.it must lubricate gears
    2.it must lubricate and seal the compression piston and the free hammering piston
    3.it must be heat-resistant and must not get too runny when heated (leakage)
    4.it must contain additives preventing metal corrosion, oil oxidation and desintegration
    5.it must not attack the seals of bearings and housing parts
    6.it must not attack electrical insulation materials

    All this comes very close to the task list of a good quality compressor oil. I wonder what happens if you fill a Hilti with a Shell Tellus version (like Tellus 46) that would fulfill the demands above, but that would perhaps be too simple and i never tried it and neither heard of anyone else trying it and reporting back on it. Designing engineers know exactly what happens inside the mechanism, they choose all the proper dimensions and part constructions and they also make sure to apply the right metallurgy and other materials in the right places. In other words: a Hilti's mechanics may be subject to a lot of load stresses and behaviours that few other people than the Hilti people themselves know about for a full 100%. So Hilti oil may contain yet more special additives that compressor oils lack. For that reason i would not be too keen to advise the use of a regular compressor oil without having tested this for years and knowing for sure what i was talking about before suggesting it to others.

    Still, i don't understand why a TE17 should require an oil different than for all other Hiltis. I know about experiments with vegetable components, like castor oil. Oil from the castor beans is known for heat resistance and a good shelf life. It clings very well to all surfaces, so it maintains a good lubricating fil on gear teeth and cylinder walls. It is said that Castrol two-stroke mix oil once contained castor oil as an additive, which could explain its name. Sturmey Archer geared hubs also required oil with a partly vegetable addition. This oil was known to dry up a bit when meeting outside air, so it turned to grease in all seams and seals, which was perfect for keeping out sand and dust. So would the TE17's oil have been subject to such a formula experiment? I really don't know for sure, it's something worth finding out.

    Hilti's standard hammer oil is called "Turmopol" and it is sold and advised by many German sellers as a valid option for most Hilti hammers.

    I will ask around if the TE17 indeed needs special oil, and i'm also curious to know if there would be any harm in filling it with regular Turmopol. I'll get back to you when i have the proper answers. A mail adressed to the Schaan factory will be enlightening, i expect.

    In the mean time on the web:

    1L Turmopol 20 HD für Hilti TE 60 72 76 805 905 SM-02 bei eBay.de: Bohrmaschinen (endet 11.08.10 16:56:18 MESZ)
    This is an example of an original Hilti standard package size Turmopol 20HD on sale, Note the advise underneath for most Hilti rotary hammers and breakers. By the way: look at the price tag for one litre only! Small package offers containing the exact single fill amounts for specific Hilti hammer types, are to be found in abundance on the web.

    Also: the safety sheet on Turmopol 20HD:
    http://www.us.hilti.com/data/techlib...msds224_en.pdf

    And since we're at it: these are the recommended fill amounts (millilitres) for most Hiltis. I compared many sites and these are the numbers they all seem to agree on:

    20ml: TE12S
    35ml: TE14/15/15C/18M
    40ml: TE17/22
    45ml: TE24/25/35/504/505
    50ml: TE52
    60ml: TE54/55
    70ml: TE60/72/74/75/76
    80ml: TE905
    120ml: TE92



    greetings

    gerhard
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  10. #9
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    Thanks for that information Gerhard.

    I have TE17 that I purchased back in the early 70's. That was probably one of the best investments I made in my contracting life. I still have the machine but is rarely used these days. Maybe once or twice a year.

    I actually made $1,000's with it. It was a chance purchase. I was working in the Bushell's tea factory installing shopfront partitions and I had to stand 10 sets of 3" x 8" RHS steel door columns that forklifts drove through pushing the doors open with the forks.

    I had to drill 5/8 holes into 30MPA concrete to insert loxins in. I had a 1/2 Bosch percussion drill and it was taking all day to stand one set of door jambs. There was a carpenter there and he said to me the Hilti rep was downstairs and my reply was who is Hilti. He said he sells drilling machines. So I said send him up. When he came up and he flashed this fancy looking drill at me. I said how much is that and he replied $350.00 and my reply was nobody pays that much a drill and all he said was what size hole are you drilling. He then puts a 5/8 drill bit in the machine and says try that.

    I put the bit on the concrete and pulled the trigger and it buried itself quicker than I could say hell!!!!. The next words out of my mouth were "I'LL TAKE IT" He then had the hide to charge me another $90.00 for the 5/8 drill bit.

    As I said it was the best investment I ever made in my contracting life.
    Regards Bazza

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    "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards."
    -Vernon Sanders Law

    The views expressed by the poster are general in nature and any advice should be taken in this vein. The poster accepts no responsibility if this advice is used. When undertaking any work personal professional advice should be sought from suitably qualified persons in the field of work being undertaken.


  11. #10
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    Hi Bazza,

    thanks very much for your reaction, i love practice stories like that! I totally agree, these are beautiful machines and worth their money. I found that over the years i've used the TE22 the most times, it handles like the 17 but it has electronics (nice for pinpointing a hole) and slightly more powerful hammering. I saw a brand new one on Ebay USA, so it was a 115 Volts version. Never mind, i wanted it and i bought it. It's the one in the pic above, shown in its case. I've added some more of it below. The auction was in July 2009, with the ending of the production of this model being more than 15 years ago. So this is probably one of the last 22s in the world that are still in unused condition and i'll keep it like that. Machines like these will be the "technical antique" classics of the future.

    The 22 was in fact the second generation of the 17 and the first types also had an alloy motor housing, like the 17 has. A funny fact is that, of all switch makers in the world, Hilti chose Capax for the manufaturing of a dust proof electronic switch assembly, and Capax is a Dutch firm. Though it must be said that Capax was one of the first making these, they also made electronic switches for Skil, which was a pioneering brand on its own accord.

    I've sent the mail about the oil question to Schaan, i'll share their reply here when it comes in. On Ebay Germany very well kept and sparingly used TE17s pop up on a regular basis. On average they still fetch hefty proceeds, which goes to show that many more people around the world have experienced in practice what you and i and many other forum members here have found out!

    All the best from Amsterdam!

    gerhard
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    I also had a TE60 that I bought off a friend who was desperate for some money for $300.00 that he paid about $800 or $900 for. A few years later I sold it for a lot more than I paid for it.

    Back in the early 80's I worked for Ramset Fasteners selling their Dyna Drills which were basically made by Bosch but had a Ramset Orange casing.
    Regards Bazza

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    -Vernon Sanders Law

    The views expressed by the poster are general in nature and any advice should be taken in this vein. The poster accepts no responsibility if this advice is used. When undertaking any work personal professional advice should be sought from suitably qualified persons in the field of work being undertaken.


  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_White View Post
    Thanks for that information Gerhard.

    I have TE17 that I purchased back in the early 70's. That was probably one of the best investments I made in my contracting life. I still have the machine but is rarely used these days. Maybe once or twice a year.

    I had to drill 5/8 holes into 30MPA concrete to insert loxins in. I had a 1/2 Bosch percussion drill and it was taking all day to stand one set of door jambs. There was a carpenter there and he said to me the Hilti rep was downstairs and my reply was who is Hilti. He said he sells drilling machines. So I said send him up. When he came up and he flashed this fancy looking drill at me. I said how much is that and he replied $350.00 and my reply was nobody pays that much a drill and all he said was what size hole are you drilling. He then puts a 5/8 drill bit in the machine and says try that.

    I put the bit on the concrete and pulled the trigger and it buried itself quicker than I could say hell!!!!. The next words out of my mouth were "I'LL TAKE IT" He then had the hide to charge me another $90.00 for the 5/8 drill bit.

    As I said it was the best investment I ever made in my contracting life.
    Hi Bazza,

    I had a similar experience, back in the '80s we were refurbishing an old multi storey in Sydney and had to drill quite number of holes in the concrete floors.
    At the time I had a relatively new Makita hammer drill which I thought was Ok till I had to drill this old concrete. It took forever to drill one hole.
    A sparky was working nearby and he said, here try this drill, it was a TE 10 which went through the slab like butter.
    The Hilti rep couldn't get to the job quick enough for me!
    I am still using it and it is as good as ever!
    Like you say, it was the best investment I made.

    Colin.

  14. #13
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    Hello Gerhard,:

    Sorry for not replying to you sooner.:

    Thank you for your interest, like you I do not understand why the TE 17 should require a different oil to other Hilti models, all I can think of is that maybe the seals are made from a different material, and using the wrong oil will cause the seals to breakdown, resulting in leaks.:p>:p>

    I have had a look at the "Turmopol" oil on ebay; interestingly the TE 17 is not on the list of recommended devices.

    I look forward to hearing the results of your inquires.

    Thanks again:

    Peter.

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    Default need Help it Hilti T17

    Hello,
    my family owns a T17 since 1973. I am using it since 1983 when we built our house. Now the drills chuck broke and I found a source to purchase a new one.
    But I have trouble to remove the broken part and replace it with the new one. Does some one have a manual or drawing from where I could pick up how the assembly is designed?
    Any help is certainly appreciated!
    Thanks very much!
    Siggi

  16. #15
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    Hi Siggi,

    belowe is a link that shows the steps to undertake:

    De-/Remontage Bohrfutter Hilti TE17 TE22

    greetings

    gerhard

    PS.: since the question about the TE 17's lube oil in the post just above springs up again: i sent a mail to Hilti to ask what is supposed to be so special about the TE 17 that it should not be mentioned in the list of machines for which the standard Turmopol is good enough (= virtually all other Hilti's). I never got a reply.

    If someone from Hilti reads this and feels the urge to comment; be my guest.

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