Thread: Lusting after a Festool guide rail saw but can't afford one?

heres a link for it but only seems to be in this package

Originally Posted by ian

was browsing Sydney Tools at Castle Hill today and came across a Makita guide rail saw [...]
Price was $850 for saw + two 1400 guide rails + other stuff

But the Festool kit isn't a whole lot dearer. I got mine or $847 last year with 1 guide rail and systainer. They have gone up a bit since. Is an amazing bit of gear that can deliver a planer-like-finish edge on a cut. The combination of a straight cut and measured depth is priceless.

On a real budget, you can get aftermarket guide/base like these from Carba-tec:
http://www.carbatec.com.au/clamps-vi...ogrip-saw-base

But I got a different result on the Sydney Tools website for guide rail saws.
http://www.sydneytools.com.au/shopdi...ail+Track+Saws

* 165mm Makita SP6000K $680.

* 160mm Festool TS55EQBFS $896.50

Both seem rather high prices for 6.5 inch saws plus a guide.

Cheers

Graeme

If money is tight (isn't always?) perhaps a viable alternative is the pro-grip system. See the link below. Does anyone have any direct experience of using this product?

http://www.carbatec.com.au/clamps-vi...progrip-fences

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

But I got a different result on the Sydney Tools website for guide rail saws.
http://www.sydneytools.com.au/shopdi...ail+Track+Saws

* 165mm Makita SP6000K $680.

* 160mm Festool TS55EQBFS $896.50

Both seem rather high prices for 6.5 inch saws plus a guide.
[...]

Yes they are pricey. And they are near identical in design, so much so I wondered if Makita had bough festool, but didn't manage to find any information.

Note the lower prices above are for saw with guide rails, but less other bits. The price in the first post is a fuller kit.

The key is that the guide allows the saw to track absolutely straight with near zero play, leaving a planer-like finish on the cut edges. Having used a "normal" circular saw, there is no comparison.

FWIW, Makita doesn't have the same range of tracks/guides as Festool, which also include router guides and 32mm hole spacing guides for cabinet shelves.

festool first brought out the saw and guide rail in 1964, thats 45 years ago.

there are only 3 design changes in those 45 years.

i had the earlier ATF 55 and it had a few things that were not perfect, such as changing the blade, it used to be a bugger. and the riving knife was not spring loaded, i always wondered why they called it a plunge cutting saw, i tried this a few times, it scared the hell out of me when the saw would kick back and leave skid marks on the very expensive aluminium guide rails.

i now have the festool TS-55, in my eyes, it is as close to perfection as you can get, i am sure it will be 10 years or more before they change the design again.

dont get me wrong, i love makita too, i swear by their dropsaws, planers, cordless and electric drills.
but i think they will have a few design changes to their track saw, before i would could call it perfect. and when i spend close to $1000, i demand perfection.

maybe if it was half the price of the festool range i would have bought it, but it was way too close to the rolls royce of power tools-festool.
i am no expert in marketing or advertising but i reckon every chippie would buy the makita for the right price, but thats the problem for me, its just too expensive.

anyway, thats enough tool bashing/worshipping for one night, tomorrows a bright, brand new day!

cheers, justin.

Originally Posted by justinmcf

festool first brought out the saw and guide rail in 1964, thats 45 years ago.
[...]i now have the festool TS-55, in my eyes, it is as close to perfection as you can get, i am sure it will be 10 years or more before they change the design again.
[...]

I think they could do a bit better still ergonomically....since I expected these issues to be not there:
1. engineer gears without the growl
2. additional depth marker for when using on the guide rail
3. include the optional grub screw for precision depth setting
4. a family of blades with identical kerfs that will go with same splinterguard strip (I get that using Freud blades)

Plus miscellaneous little things - higher quality castings without rough edges; larger machine threaded adjustment screws rather than self tappers landing on aluminium; higher precision in hinge mechanism, etc

we just go stock of the makita plunge cut saws today, and all the workers were keen to pick out the differences to the festool after spending $50k of our advertising budget & an extra 40sq meters of showroom space to upgrade from festool shop to festool premium shop.

apart from the above the main items they managed to pick out was:
1. variable speed adjuster seemed very tight
2. no riving knife
3. the base thickness
4. tanos systainer case (festool owned company)
5. 3year warranty of the festool compared to the 1 year of the makita

we decided that it does have a market for the carpeneter that just wants a priced position plunge cut saw, by the time you add the guide rail & with makita's price increase we think that alot of the customers will still buy the festool over the makita

cheers


Team VEK TOOLS
www.vektools.com.au

you are right blouis79, i forgot about the depth marker while using the rail. thats a pita when cutting timber, its impossible to use the saw without the rail, i dont understand why the depth gauge is marked out the way it is.

the growl you spoke of, is not the gearing, i believe its the MMC electronics controlling the motor. i get the same growl when i kickstart my kapex droppy.

i have read on the FOG website that the electronics are constantly adjusting the power under load, which saves the motor in the long term. i am not an electrician, so dont take my word as gospel truth.

i was not aware of the other issues you have brought up, but i will check them out tomorrow morning.

hopefully, festool keep up to date with these forums and take on board what you have said.

Originally Posted by justinmcf

[...] i dont understand why the depth gauge is marked out the way it is.

the growl you spoke of, is not the gearing, i believe its the MMC electronics controlling the motor. i get the same growl when i kickstart my kapex droppy.
[...] hopefully, festool keep up to date with these forums and take on board what you have said.

I'm fairly sure the growl is gear backlash which is why it goes away under any sort of load. There is a lot of gear backlash. It's easy to test the noise with/without blade and load.

I started making an aluminium add-on pointer to correct for depth. I had seen a plastic one on a Festool forum, where I had mentioned the little design deficiencies.

Firstly I have not used the Festool or Makita but both appear overpriced. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
I typed in track saw guides through Google and two I found interesting was the EZ saw guide and the Penn State Industries (PSI) panel saw guide. <o></o>
The EZ saw guide has a Utube video showing its merits and is impressive at around $260 to $330 Aust. delivered to door. (Prices depend on length of track, rough dollar conversions, freight guesses ex <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">USA</st1lace></st1:country-region>. So the prices are probably on the high side.) <o></o>
The PSI panel saw guide is about $250 delivered Aust. The PSI accuracy is listed as 1/16 out over 9 feet or 1/16 inch out over 108 inches. About 1 1/2 mm out in 2meters. Which is fine for my amateur usuage. Both will accept cordless 6 1/2 inch saws or normal corded saws up to 8 1/2 inch. Both appear simple, easy to use and quick to set up. I am going for the cheaper one.

EZ you tube demo.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrrjLYn-6WY"]YouTube - The EZ Clamping System[/ame]

Originally Posted by johncee1945

Firstly I have not used the Festool or Makita but both appear overpriced. <o></o>

Sigh. Overpriced is in the eye of the beholder and the results for the user.


I typed in track saw guides through Google and two I found interesting was the EZ saw guide and the Penn State Industries (PSI) panel saw guide. <o></o>

The EZ system has been discussed before, although it can be again. Keep in mind the price you mention does not include the saw!

The EZ saw guide has a Utube video showing its merits and is impressive at around $260 to $330 Aust. delivered to door.

The PSI panel saw guide is about $250 delivered Aust. The PSI accuracy is listed as 1/16 out over 9 feet or 1/16 inch out over 108 inches. About 1 1/2 mm out in 2meters. Which is fine for my amateur usuage. Both will accept cordless 6 1/2 inch saws or normal corded saws up to 8 1/2 inch. Both appear simple, easy to use and quick to set up. I am going for the cheaper one.

Go for your life, and let us know how you go. 1/16th inch over 9 feet would be unacceptable to me, but horses for courses.

i agree with honorary bloke, 1/16 is way too much for me.

1/16 inch= 1.5875mm

1.5mm out over 9 feet is not even close to precise!
a standard sheet size is 8 x 4 or (2400mm x 1200mm).
i cant imagine losing 1.5mm while ripping sheets.

horses for courses as the man said, btw, my festool paid for itself in 1 day, installing a kitchen and hanging doors. it is expensive, but it saves me money everytime i take it out of the box.

cheers, justin.

I'm with "The Bloke" as well. I have a TS75 and I reckon it's paid for itself several times. Accuracy is all.

Regards,

Rob