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1st September 2005, 03:24 PM #16Originally Posted by Zed
In my advice I did say 'ask the dealer why the 20amp plug'.
Failing an explanation then....da de dah etc.
Whilst it may be open to argument, I do not think of myself as a moron. Just because some unspecified person in the supply chain puts a 20 amp plug on a device and my supplier can't explain why, I am going to think before I spend $$ hundreds on what may be an unnecessary electrician visit.
Its quite reasonable to question why a 1HP motor requires a 20amp circuit.
I'm not a lemming, I'm sure, neither are you. We are given brains to use and a questioning intelligence.
I'm no sparky, but someone please explain how a 3.125 amp device could need a 20 amp circuit.Bodgy
"Is it not enough simply to be able to appreciate the beauty of the garden without it being necessary to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of it? " Douglas Adams
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1st September 2005, 03:33 PM #17
Bodgy,
I stand by my comments :
* use manufacturers quoted specs.
* dont bodgy up cctry
* dont modify power supply systems unless trained and responsible
if a sales person cant explain something - then your right check and check again until you get the answer.
why does a 3A machine require a 2OA cct ? I dont know - probably doesnt unless its got a huge surge during start up - perhaps the sales bloke just wants to sell the item so talked it up!Zed
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1st September 2005, 03:34 PM #18
We're talking 15 not 20...
OK, here's a layman's understanding:
Induction motors use a startup winding which is a higher resistance to that of the main winding which drives the motor. The startup winding kicks in when the motor is first switched on and stays on until it gets up to operating speed. This winding draws a higher current and this explains why an induction motor would draw a lot more current at start up. There is more to this but that's the basic gist.
In order to answer the question, you would need to know what the startup winding draws - we don't have this information. If it was double the main winding, then you would still be right with 10 amps. If it's more than 10, then you might need 15 amps. In this case, if you plug it into a 10 amp circuit, then you might trip the breaker when you turn it on but you are not going to burn down the house, because it is only drawing 3.125 amps when running.
Also don't assume that 1hp really means 1hp. I'd imagine there would be a lot of variation between motors (especially on these cheaper machines). It might be between 3/4hp and 1hp. Less likely it could be more.
I reckon if they are telling you to hook it up to a 15 amp circuit, it is just backside covering on their behalf."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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1st September 2005, 03:50 PM #19
jshaw, regardless of some of what has been said so far, I personally have a CTJ-150 purchased from Carbatec and it came with a 10A plug and it doesn't even flicker anything when I turn it on. In my opinion either someone has made a mistake with the plug or the salesman has his head up his fundamental orifice.
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1st September 2005, 04:10 PM #20I personally have a CTJ-150 purchased from Carbatec and it came with a 10A plug and it doesn't even flicker anything when I turn it on.
I think I'll cruise around the show and ask a lot of questions this weekend then see if the missus will still let me flash some cash.
Maybe one day I'll ask a question on here that doesn't start a fight (The Soundman v Gazaly stouch a couple of weeks back was me too.)
Thanks for all your suggestions and help, guys. If it really says it needs the 15A, I'll leave it till that's sorted - power, like fast cars, scare the hell out of me. I turned a car over when I was 18 and walked away, I don't trust to luck any longer, probably used mine up...
Cheers,
John
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1st September 2005, 04:24 PM #21
AAAH don't worry about it John, fights is what we do best.
Good luck this weekend, spend lots money, and have fun.Boring signature time again!
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1st September 2005, 04:26 PM #22Originally Posted by jshaw
Note; the ball not the man was played.
The evident passion still amazes me, even after a few months as a member. We've currently got a full on, knock down brawl in session, regarding some dead Dutch architect's go at building a colourful wooden chair in the '50s! Must be something in the sawdust.Bodgy
"Is it not enough simply to be able to appreciate the beauty of the garden without it being necessary to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of it? " Douglas Adams
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1st September 2005, 04:27 PM #23
Yeah, just in case there's any doubt, I love a good argument. Or a bad one. In fact, crazy as it might sound, I sometimes argue for the fun of it. As long as you remember I'm always right, then everything is OK.
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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1st September 2005, 04:38 PM #24Originally Posted by silentC
Is that like;
" We play as a team, and we do it My way."
Boring signature time again!
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1st September 2005, 04:39 PM #25
Who said anything about a team? You're on your own buddy
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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1st September 2005, 06:53 PM #26
Bearing in mind that 10amp, 15amp and 20amp circuits all use 2.5mm2 cable in their circuits the only difference being that you can have several 10amp points on the one circuit and only 1 x 15amp or 1 x 20amp point on a circuit if you only have the one machine running on the circuit at a time it will have no effect on the cable.
The only thing that will happen is if the circuit is protected by a fuse it will blow a 10 amp wire fuse, but maybe it wont. If it is what is called a HRC fuse it will possibly hold because the have ability to hold on startup surge. If it is protected by a circuit breaker, 10, 15, and 20amp circuits are protected by a 20amp circuit breaker.
So as the others have suggested make up a short extension lead using a 20 amp socket and a 10amp plug and that will protect your warranty and get you out of trouble but only use one machine at a time.
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1st September 2005, 08:56 PM #27
I got my TSC-10HB about a month ago which is supposed to have a 3hp motor. It came with a 10A plug and although the lights dim for a fraction of a second on startup that is with the 2hp dusty already fired up. Ive had no probs so I think 15A on the jointer is a bit over the top.
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1st September 2005, 10:56 PM #28
First thing, DO NOT USE A 'JUMPER LEAD'. That being a lead with 10A on one end, 15A socket on the other. Aside from being not stricly legal, if your shed/house burns down guess what they are going to point at? Wether it caused it or not. Not covered for insurance, and the coroner might not look too kindly either...
The two sensible ways out of it are to get a 15A supply to the shed (used for more than just a little jointer) as mentioned, or get the dealer to fit a more suitable plug to the machine. If they absolutely will not do it, then there might just be a reason why they don't do it. Ask why. If the reason is not suitable, take your business elsewhere.
Simple fact being that 1HP doesn't need 15A as has been well established.
Silent C, the fridge. True. Also not connected to the RCD. Supposed reason being that if you are away for a few weeks and the RCD trips, you get a fridge full of rotten stuff. Also that the dedicated fridge outlet is usually up high (away from kids) and tucked away where it wont be used for everyday stuff. You can also avoid hooking up dedicated motor circuits to an RCD, or fit a proper motor control RCD. Mega bucks. I know because the apprentice I had with me dropped one...
Short version of all this is that the jointer doesn't need a 15A plug, and leaving it there is a hassle. Either have it changed by them (warranty, etc.) or get another circuit out there to keep it happy. You will use it for other things.
So, anyone else got an electrical mechanic's license too?
Edit: Barry, 2.5mm2 is ok on a 20A circuit, provided it's installed right. More often than not, I would run 4mm2. Just because that's how I was taught to do things. Always allow for a little extra, because it might be you that has to change or fix it...
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2nd September 2005, 06:22 PM #29
I have seen the standard plug to 15 amp socket in camping shops. About 12 inches long. It seems to be aimed at caravaners who need to connect the van to an ordinary plug.
Keep in mind the total load on an ordinary circuit .. particularly startup and things can be made to work! Its all about the individual managing their own use of electricity rather than the "powers that be" determining likely behaviour and trying to protect the individual by restrictive rules. In short, if you play, its your problem, but given that, you should not be stopped from playing!
Personally, I'd use the machines on the supply you have, taking care not to start both at once. I'd also make sure the protection in the fuse box (circuit breaker or fuse) is correctly installed and rated for the circuit you are using .. If protection is offerred by a fuse make sure it is 15amp fuse wire in the fuse, not a nail, not a piece of copper wire, not a piece of galv fencing wire, not a piece of reo bar .. just fuse wire, just one piece rated at 15amps!
If in doubt, the DIY belts and braces way is to get a portable combined Residual Current Device and Overload device ,... ie a portable safety switch, and operate things through that. (Clipsal and HPM make them as orange boxed with multiple switched outlets protected electrically by a safety switch)
The non DIY way is to get in a sparky ... and although preferred, it ain't always possible ie a rented place.
Hope the new machines are heaps of fun.
Make fine shavings in a good cause.
But watch those fingers!cheers
David
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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they’ll never sit in. (Greek proverb)
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2nd September 2005, 08:57 PM #30
Bodgy,
You been in my shed????
Cheers!
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