Thread: Starting set of good quality handtools

Charles

You are going to get a million different suggestions!

My view is 'it depends what you are after'. If you just want to do basic woodwork and knock up items with hand tools, you could be happy with basic Stanley (yellow handles)or Record (blue handles) bevel chisels, a Stanley or Record #4 smooth plane and #5 1/2 scrub plane, along with hand saws from Bunnings. Tune and sharpen them well and you will be very well served.

On the other hand, if you are like many of us and treat woodwork as a hobby, you will likely also be looking to get pleasure from the tools you use. This does not necessarily mean that you must go and spent big $$$ on the big names (such as Lie Nielson, Clifton, or HNT Gordon planes), since many of the planes, chisels and saws are available second hand - and the older ones (1950 and earlier) are in fact beter quality than more recent vintages (The iron is more stable and the finish is generally superior). Look on Ebay.

If you do choose to go new and $$$, look to the makers I've mentioned above for planes, and check out the Japanese chisels and saws.

Regardless of what you purchase, make room also for sharpening equipment. Get a chisel/plane balde guide (I like the Veritas) and stones (I prefer Japanese water stones, but you can do wonderful things with sandpaper as well). Don't blame your tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek

If you want to save money - Don't go to Bunnies...

Second that on second hand planes. I inherited a few and one of the best is a 80+ year old Stanley 4½. Simply flattened the bottom on a sheet of plate glass and wet and dry, polished the blade, gave it a good clean up and I wouldn’t have to argue that it is twice as good as anything that you’d pick up in new other than the pretty looking sparkly brass ones in carbatec and timbercon.

Look around antique shops, etc.

Do a search for “scary sharp” in the forums and print it out or save it.

I opt for Stanley chisels, no particular reason. Same applies, scary sharp once you get it out of its packet.

If you haven’t got a work bench think of what you’d need to get you that far. A drill for some couch bolts, a saw and a straight edge (L section steel works fine), a set square, etc. It doesn’t take a shed full of power tools nor a Swedish bank account to get going.
Oh yeah, keep you eyes peeled for decent clamps that are on special.

As you’d appreciate my vortex v6 fins are brilliant, and I'd go without a dowelling jig or thingy anytime to save money for diving gear

Some very useful responses, Thank you.

The scary sharp system was very interesting. I think at this stage I will try 1000/6000/8000 japanese waterstones with a 400 diamond hone for rough work and truing stones. The suggestion of the Veritas guide was good and I will be getting one.

I really like the suggestion of hunting for good second-hand tools but my problem is I don't have enough tools to tide me over until I find good used ones. I have looked at ebay for tools and I must be checking out the wrong spot cause I can't seem to find anything except for cheap mass produced junk.

Reading back I understand I could get as many different answers as repliers. Let me see if I can make the question a bit clearer and more interesting.

Suppose you are taking up woodworking now, but you still have all your experience (bitter and pleasent). After deep and meaningfull thought, about 6 or 7 beers worth, you decide to buy a set of hand woodworking tools to make the best furniture or cabinet work possible. It's your money so you are not going to be wildly silly but as I have read many times here, buy cheap, buy twice.

So starting from nothing and wanting to work now - What would you buy?

Charles

PS Eastie I do understand, I just bought a pair of vortex V12's.

[This message has been edited by spbookie (edited 17 October 2002).]

Ok Charles, try this on:

Planes: Let's go traditional, and reasonable (all around $400 each, available from Carba-Tec). Clifton #4 smoother, Clifton #5 Jack Plane, and Clifton #7 Jointing plane. These are based on Bedrock designs, all the equal of the Lie Nielson planes (which cost twice as much). You will need a block plane, and the sweetest, nicest one I know (and own) is the Lie Nielson LN-102 (low angle, bronze).

Other to consider: HNT Gordon HNT-B1 smoothing plane, HNT Gordon HNT-F1 Shoulder Plane (these are all wooden planes, and the blades are fixed with wedges. But - oh my! - how I love them so!!) Both around the $180 mark.

Why two smoothing planes? Because the standard 45 degree plane (Stanley and Clifton) are best for soft woods. Our Aussie woods are hard and the very devil to plane without tearout, and respond best to a high angle blade - hence the HNT Gordon (60 degree).

Scapers: Lie Nielson LN-85, Stanley #80, also get a few card scrapers (and the Veritas "Variable Burnisher" to sharpen them - makes life easy).

Chisels: I love my Iyoroi Japanese chisels. They hold a sharp edge extremely well and are so pretty that it is almost crimal to use them! All around $60-70 each. You need at least a 6mm, 12mm, 18mm, and 24mm. Buy these once and they will be all you want forever.

Oh, and a good marking knife (Japanese again, $30), mortising gauge (Veritas Wheel Marking gauge is about $45, Japanese is $90), and a good square.

Saws: Japanese saws run from around $50 to the hundreds. The inexpensive "Z" brand is excellent. Get one for dovetailing and tenons (Z-7029, 240mm long)and one for cross cutting (Z-15011, 300mm long). If you are feeling flush, get the Kataba WKG-300M for ripping.

Have fun.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi,
Thanks for a very informative reply Derek. The best part is you have firmed / confirmed a number of my existing decisions. (You must be smart cause I agree with you .

So this weekend I am going start shopping .

Below is my complete list (things in italics I already have), the rest are on the shopping list:

Sharpening
<ul>[*]Large 400 or 600 diamond hone[*]1000 grit Japanese waterstone[*]6000 grit Japanese waterstone[*]Veritas waterstone sharpening system (called something like "stone tank") which includes a Veritas honing jig[*]Veritas variable burnisher[*]Abbot and Ashby grinder with oxide stones[/list]
Marking and measuring
<ul>[*]Mortise gauge[*]Bevel gauge[*]Marking gauge[*]150, 300, 500, 1000, 1500 mm steel rules[*]Gifkins pocket (4") square[*]6" Square - engineers - any brand but must meet standards[*]12" Square engineers[*]Carpenters (large) square[*]30/60/90 triangle[*]tape measure 19mm X 5M[*]Marking knife (beveled the "wrong" way as I am left handed) or the Veritas double beveled knife[/list]
Planes
<ul>[*]Record No 4 had it for 30 years - should I replace it?[*]Clifton #5 Jack Plane[*]Clifton #7 Jointing plane[*]Lie Nielson LN-102 block plane[*]HNT Gordon HNT-B1 smoothing plane - will double as a scraper[*]Set of marples cabinet scrapers[*]Stanley #80[/list]
Chisels
<ul>[*]Robert Sorby Gilt Edge Rosewood Handled Chisel # 520 Set of 5 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and 1"[*]1/4 Mortise chisel[*]1/2 Mortise chisel[/list]
Saws
<ul>[*]Japanese Z-7029 dovetail (Haven't tried the Japanese saws, so this is my starter)[*]Dovetail saw (if I don't like the above)[*]Pair of tenon saws 12"[*]Hardpoint jack saw hardpoint for hacking stuff[*]Piercing saw (jeweler's type)[*]Coping saw[/list]

So how does that look for a good start? Anyone else got any thoughts before I go and commit my hard earned cash? My plan is to purchase from the list as I need to complete projects.

First project build a bench and tool cabinets to store it all.

Thanks again Derek - I will let everyone know as I progress (gotta boast a bit).

Charles


[This message has been edited by spbookie (edited 18 October 2002).]

Charles

Your list is to kill for!!!

A few comments and suggestions:

Sharpening: 180/280/350 diamond stones
800/1200/4000/6000 waterstones

A 1200 waterstone is equiv to a 600 diamond stone. Don't use diamond stones on laminated (Japanese) blades.

What you are looking for is the Veritas "Stone Pond" (I have one too).


Planes: keep your Stanley #4. It is an excellent tool - on which the Cliftons are based.

Consider all planes to be unfinished, that is, they ALL need flattening (lapping on sandpaper up to 600 grit). What you are paying for with the expensive planes is that most of the tuning work is done for you already.

Good pick up that the HNT Gordon can be used as a scraper. I have used it this way occationally, and it works very well (However, I prefer my Stanley #112 scraping plane).

Chisels: I think that you would get more use out of a 1/4" and a 3/8" (rather than 1/2") mortice chisels.

Marking and measuring: I have a Nobex adjustable square. This provides 45/90/135 degree angles. Very accurate and guaranteed. Well worth it (about $70).

The rest of your selection is truly excellent.

I note that you are in Camberra. You should look up an internet mate of mine, Mick Doherty ([email protected]). He is a very keen woodworker and into building infill planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

spbookie, how did it go for you? I know its been for ever...

Hi

I got some Ashley Ilse chisels from http://www.toolsforwoodworking.com/
over the net (you can also get some good deals on Clifton etc in the US). They are reputed to hold a better edge than many other makes. They probably aren't as pretty as the Sorby but are very functional. They also come with different handles from "The Best Things" in the US. Of course, buying over the net has its drawbacks - you can't see what you are getting and you are not supporting local retailers. In NZ that's not a problem as there aren't any decent tool retailers (within a few hundred miles of where I live). Tools are also typically about half the price in the US!

The Ashley Iles chisels are hand forged and ground "in the old tradition" apparently, but at a reasonable price. The blades are quite thin and great for fine work. Mine were reasonably flat except one which needed a bit of work.

I took one (after honing it to a mirror) to work to show a friend who suggested it would be good for splitting bricks. He isn't borrowing them!!

Happy buying!

Cheers from NZ

Originally Posted by spbookie

Hi,
Thanks for a very informative reply Derek. The best part is you have firmed / confirmed a number of my existing decisions. (You must be smart cause I agree with you .

So this weekend I am going start shopping .

Below is my complete list (things in italics I already have), the rest are on the shopping list:

Sharpening

• Large 400 or 600 diamond hone
• 1000 grit Japanese waterstone
• 6000 grit Japanese waterstone
• Veritas waterstone sharpening system (called something like "stone tank") which includes a Veritas honing jig
• Veritas variable burnisher
• Abbot and Ashby grinder with oxide stones

Marking and measuring

• Mortise gauge
• Bevel gauge
• Marking gauge
• 150, 300, 500, 1000, 1500 mm steel rules
• Gifkins pocket (4") square
• 6" Square - engineers - any brand but must meet standards
• 12" Square engineers
• Carpenters (large) square
• 30/60/90 triangle
• tape measure 19mm X 5M
• Marking knife (beveled the "wrong" way as I am left handed) or the Veritas double beveled knife

Planes

• Record No 4 had it for 30 years - should I replace it?
• Clifton #5 Jack Plane
• Clifton #7 Jointing plane
• Lie Nielson LN-102 block plane
• HNT Gordon HNT-B1 smoothing plane - will double as a scraper
• Set of marples cabinet scrapers
• Stanley #80

Chisels

• Robert Sorby Gilt Edge Rosewood Handled Chisel # 520 Set of 5 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and 1"
• 1/4 Mortise chisel
• 1/2 Mortise chisel

Saws

• Japanese Z-7029 dovetail (Haven't tried the Japanese saws, so this is my starter)
• Dovetail saw (if I don't like the above)
• Pair of tenon saws 12"
• Hardpoint jack saw hardpoint for hacking stuff
• Piercing saw (jeweler's type)
• Coping saw

So how does that look for a good start? Anyone else got any thoughts before I go and commit my hard earned cash? My plan is to purchase from the list as I need to complete projects.

First project build a bench and tool cabinets to store it all.

Thanks again Derek - I will let everyone know as I progress (gotta boast a bit).

Charles


[This message has been edited by spbookie (edited 18 October 2002).]

[/list][/list][/list][/list][/list]

Spbookie, have you worked out how much all that is going to cost?

I'd also add in:

For your bench:
Tail and front vise. The homebrand carbatec vises are fine., for tails I'm not sure.
Some wonderdogs.

And, make sure you build yourself a shooting board. For squaring endgrain, theres nothing more accurate or satisfying. And the surface is reay for finishing. (If you've got a sharp blade)

And! For 'rough honing' etc. Forget the stones. People have commented on the diamonds wearing out a bit after the first few aggressive sessions. For regrinding a bevel, you'd be amazed at how quickly an 80Grit piece of W&D paper on glass will do it. 4 or 5 minutes.

you can then do your sharpening and honing from there but for rough stuff I think the paper/glass combo is a good option.

Actually, scrib all that. I think the best thing to do is buy them as you need them. You ESPECIALLY the planes. You need to know how they work and the intracacies of sharpening, fettling and setting them. If you get 7 or 8 all at once, then you may be overwhelmed. The same might also go for chisels.

I'm slowly, on a limited budget, building my collection (a good smoother is next) and when you research, window shop, and covet a $400 plane for a few months you really appreciate it when it arrives!

I promised some time ago to update this list, prompted by RichardL and LineLefty's recent posts, here is my current list and status:

Below is my complete list:

Sharpening

• Large 400 or 600 diamond hone
  Bought a 220 grit large diamond stone for lapping and flattening waterstones
• 1000 grit Japanese waterstone
  Bought Norton 1000 grit waterstone, no problems with the step from the 220 diamond plate to the 1000 grit
• Not on my original list 4000 Grit stone
  Bought Norton 4000 grit stone
• 6000 grit Japanese waterstone
  Bought Norton 6000 grit stone
• Not on my original list - honing compound
  Bought Veritas green honing compound used rubbed on a piece of 19mm MDF, I tried using a leather strop but the MDF works better.
• Veritas waterstone sharpening system (called something like "stone tank") which includes a Veritas honing jig
  Bought honing jig and angle setter. Have great difficulties keeping the blade square with the jig, use a $10 eclipse type more often. Instead of paying $100 for the tank, I bought a $2 large square plastic container and some non-slip matting. Cut a square of the matting to go on the bottom of the container to protect the stones from crud. The rest of the mat stops the stone from moving and protects my sharpening bench.
• Veritas variable burnisher
  Bought - yet to use (or my scrapers but soon now, real soon )
• Abbot and Ashby grinder with oxide stones
  I use 80 and 120 grit stones, mostly use the 80 grit then straight to the 1000 grit waterstone. Also bought a Veritas grinding tool rest, highly recommended.

Marking and measuring

• Mortise gauge
  Had a cheap Crown gauge, fiddly to lock up without changing the mortise width but otherwise fine. I might get the type that adjusts the width of the mortice via a screw in the base sometime. On my to-do list is to file the pins of the gauge as per the various gauge tuning articles.
• Bevel gauge
  Had a stanley gauge works fine except for the locking knob getting in the way all the time. Bought a Veritas one and I'm happy with it.
• Marking gauge
  Bought a crown marking guage, works fine.
• 150, 300, 500, 1000, 1500 mm steel rules
  One recommendation hunt for a 150mm rule that does not have 0.5mm divisions, the fine lines make it hard to count correctly and you can judge to a 0.5mm just by splitting the mm divisions. Your eyes and brain will thank you.
• Gifkins pocket (4") square
  Lovely little, nearly indestructible, handy square
• 6" Square - engineers
  Any brand but must meet standards
• 12" Square engineers
  Bought a Bacho 10" square
• Carpenters (large) square
  Bought a small version and it is useless - need a large (framing) square
• 30/60/90 triangle
  Not bought
• Tape measure 19mm X 5M
  One lesson I learned was to get three tapes (yes three) one inch/metric 5m, one metric only 5m and an 8m metric or longer. the longer tape is two arkward to use all the time but when you need the longer length you really need it. The inch/metric does two things, imperial measurements for when you get plans from our US cousins or our unconverted elders and it is a instant meteric / imperial and vice-versa converter. The metric only is my main tape, metric on both sides helps correctly measure diagonals and is just generally more handy.
• Marking knife (beveled the "wrong" way as I am left handed) or the Veritas double beveled knife
  Bought several types and variations and have come to the conclusion that a good craft knife Either an xacto type or even a cheap disposable knife. With a stanley knife for deepening, or harder cuts is the best option. Cheaper, faster and replaceable blades make sharpening a snap (pun intended)

Planes

• Record No 4 had it for 30 years - should I replace it?
  The question, "should I replace it?" became pointless as my father gave it to me when I was 13 and given his death a year ago, using the plane has become a lovely reminder of his gentle practical spirit. I did however do some research on the board and spend a heap of time lapping the sole and blade. I'm so glad I kept it
• Clifton #5 Jack Plane
  Not had a requirement for this plane so far
• Clifton #7 Jointing plane
  Bought a stanley #6 new on special for $100, at that price I am prepared to put the work in to make it a good tool, But nothing replaces my thicknesser/jointer
• Lie Nielson LN-102 block plane
  Bought it, love it
• HNT Gordon HNT-B1 smoothing plane - will double as a scraper
  Not bought, not had a use for this tool yet
• Set of marples cabinet scrapers
  Bought a set of Pax scrapers, not used yet. I have in the meantime heard really good things about the sandvik/bacho ones so they might be worth investigation if you are in the market for scrapers.
• Stanley #80
  I think this was a shoulder plane, if so, I bought, after reading much discussion on the list the Veritas medium shoulder plane and I'm happy with it.

Chisels

• Robert Sorby Gilt Edge Rosewood Handled Chisel # 520 Set of 5 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and 1"
  On one of the subtle pieces of advice from the now defunct Doorstop, who morphed into a new identity and in doing so deleted all 1000+ of his posts, I bought a set of sandvik chisels. They are good steel and well priced. I also bought a 12 and 19 mm Stanley for general rough work, opening paint tins, learning to sharpen and mostly for lending.
• 1/4 Mortise chisel
• 1/2 Mortise chisel
• Not on my list - 3/8 Mortice chisel
  Derek of the Dark Side fame recommeded the 3/8 (10mm)I ended up buying the 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 Robert Sorby mortice chisels of which the 3/8" gets 90% of the work - good call Derek! These chisels are huge chunks of steel and you just feel manly wielding them

Saws

• Japanese Z-7029 dovetail (Haven't tried the Japanese saws, so this is my starter)
  Haven't got this one (yet?). I am sticking to western saws till I feel I have mastered, well at least can do an adaquate job with them before I try too much new stuff.
• Dovetail saw (if I don't like the above)
  Bought a pax dovetail saw, drool at the Lie-nielsen ones.
• Pair of tenon saws 12"
  Bought a Sandvik medium quality one from Bunnings, will move to something fancy when I need too (likely sometime around 2105)
• Hardpoint jack saw hardpoint for hacking stuff
  Bought it, need it, use it
• Piercing saw (jeweler's type)
  I already have and use this saw for silversmithing haven't needed for woodwork yet.
• Coping saw
  Same as previous item

Wish List

• 1.8m old fashioned folding rule
  The sort that has one 180 degree rotating hinge and two straight hinges that folds in leg in half, not the type that fan folds with lots of rotating pin hinges, cause they don't lie flat.
• Veritas Low-Angle planes with the optional high angle blades as well
• Lie-Niesen Independence tenon saws
  Drool Drool
• New Veritas honing jig
  After hearing Derek's feed back of course.
• Small shoulder plane
• Better marking and mortice gauges
  Can Rob Lee come up with a mortice gauge that works as well as his marking gauge? If he does I will buy it the day it is released.
• Set of bow saws
  Just cause I think they look neat and seem very efficient.
• Workbench (work in progress)
  As LineLefty said, it is probably one of the most important tools, I bought on special two record 52 1/2 clones from Timbecon and have a heap of Redgum 200 X 50 to make the bench. Which leads me to my most important wish list item.
• More time in the shed!

Regards,

Charles

I can supply you with great marking gauges at a reasonable cost
You can see some HERE just click on the "Tools" link on the left.

hummmmmmm
I can't get the page links on your site to work.
all I see in the links area is
javascript
I think I should see something like
http://www.majorpanic.com/tools.htm

Originally Posted by ian

hummmmmmm
I can't get the page links on your site to work.
all I see in the links area is
javascript
I think I should see something like
http://www.majorpanic.com/tools.htm

You could try this link; www.majorpanic.com/gauges.htm