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27th May 2003, 10:37 AM #16
Wood Borer,
BTW IVF gave us our beautiful youngest son now 15 months old.
So, I use Tools, fix washers, cars, houses, toys, etc, etc - does this mean I live forever Woo Woo - lots of years for woodwork.Wayne
______________________________________________
"I'd be delighted to offer any advice I have on understanding women.
When I have some, I'll let you know."
Picard
* New Website - Updates Coming Soon *
http://wayneswoodwork.davyfamily.com/
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27th May 2003, 11:33 AM #17
Perhaps the people that aren't changeing fuses and fixing cars are useing new tools - like a computer, driving a car, useing the telephone, or the fridge ... you don't want to be too narrow in your definition of tools.
So what turns me on as a woodworker, the end result, each product is a reflection of the person that created it. If I slap it together with hand tools or machines I get no joy in the result, no matter how good it is. When I create something, no matter how simple, where every aspect is as good as I can make it, then I am 'turned on' by the result.
Oh and the calanders that hang beside the peg boardGreat minds discuss ideas,
average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people
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27th May 2003, 12:44 PM #18
Dave,
You point about PC's and cars was brought up here at work about 20 minutes ago!
So what is a tool? Most people would agree that chisel or a spanner is a tool but PC's?
Some PC's are used only for games, whereas others are used to create documents and diagrams or control other devices. Perhaps the same PC could be used for both purposes is it a tool in both cases?
I like your idea of your work being a reflection of yourself. This idea suggests that the thoughts going through the brain controlling the tool play an important role in determining whether the project meets your satisfaction.
Wayne, perhaps your son will meet my grand daughter and both talk about boring old woodworkers but know where to come to get things made. Have you introduced him to woodwork yet?
- Wood Borer
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27th May 2003, 01:03 PM #19
Wood Borer,
I have two boys, one 4 and the little fella is 15months. The 4 year old has belted some nails into lots of pieces of wood and found out that hammers are attracted to thumbs! We (well mainly me) made Wood Crane at Christmas which both boys love to play with. I have just started letting the little one toddle around my shop (when all the power is OFF) and he picks up any stray piece of wood of the floor.
I cannot wait until both are older so that I can really get them involved but that will be a few years away yet. But when it happens, that will really turn me on as a Woodworker. Sharing knowledge and having lots of fun with my boys in my toy shop.
Wayne
BTW: The four year old already knows where to go to get things made/fixed. If a toy gets broken while I'm at work, I'll find it on my Bench when I get home.Wayne
______________________________________________
"I'd be delighted to offer any advice I have on understanding women.
When I have some, I'll let you know."
Picard
* New Website - Updates Coming Soon *
http://wayneswoodwork.davyfamily.com/
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27th May 2003, 03:25 PM #20Originally posted by Wood Borer
So what is a tool? Most people would agree that chisel or a spanner is a tool but PC's?
- Wood BorerGreat minds discuss ideas,
average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people
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27th May 2003, 03:28 PM #21
I totally agree. As for PC's, I design software so my PC is my tool!
Wayne
______________________________________________
"I'd be delighted to offer any advice I have on understanding women.
When I have some, I'll let you know."
Picard
* New Website - Updates Coming Soon *
http://wayneswoodwork.davyfamily.com/
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27th May 2003, 04:01 PM #22
Dave and Wayne,
I also work with PCs and Telephone systems and at work we reached similar conclusions. (Great minds think alike, fools never differ!)
Some examples we came up with was the PC used for programming is a tool but the PC used for Games is perhaps not a tool. The spanner in the glass case at Sidchrome Headquarters is probably not a tool but the spanner used by the mechanic to tighten/loosen nuts is a tool.
- Wood Borer
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27th May 2003, 06:58 PM #23
Doorstop,
I think you will find it is not a tool unless:
a) You do belt something with your PC (thinking about it doesn't count)
b) The resultant blow results in something similar to anticipated otherwise it would be an accident.
- Wood Borer
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27th May 2003, 08:09 PM #24
Wood Borer. That's "Fools SELDOM differ" A world of difference, I'm sure you'd agree.
Jack the Lad.
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27th May 2003, 10:11 PM #25
Coming in late here guy's, as I've been using machines to dimension timber recently got from an auction,primarily to get it in storage and out of the way.
As stated there is no comparison for sizing timber apart from doing it with a machine and more so as time is usually a factor in our busy lives these days.
Personally I ascribe to using both hand and machine tools ...I have a reasonable collection of hand planes/chisels/but limited with hand saws.
For any sawing work I will use a machine every time for ripping/cross cuts....quicker and more accurate than I can achieve with hand saws ...but with the exception of small projects I then use my Japanese handsaws with much satisfaction.
For planing I believe there is nothing more satisfying in achieving that "whisper" of the well tuned plane as it removes a fine sliver of shaving the length of the timber or trying to skew cut some wild grain using a No 4 or block plane,but there are always surmountable problems to overcome with handwork like flattening, reducing cupping, twist...the use of winding sticks,a large flat surface to work on and of course a means to restrain the piece being worked on.
I guess being a product of my age I was brought up with the generations still using handtools(as my father did as a cabinetmaker did all those years ago)and had the benefit of first handpowered and then machine tools becoming more accessible and with that a new age being awakened.
I mean I like woodturning and I use both machine and a handtool to arrive at the result the mechanism in place is that both are able to be utilised in this day and age but some skill level is required irrespective of the tool being used whether by hand or power.
I'm all for handtools, there is a place for them in the modern shed/shop alongside power tools and at times less airborne dust but patience runnith thin methinks for a dedicated handtool workshop these days what with all the new toys about!
Perservering in the learning process with the utility of a handtool can be a very satisfying and sometimes emotive level of achievement given the effort required ...it is not something easily mastered.
My shed is stocked chockka's with powered handtools all of which I use ...some more than others along with jigs and over the years they are every part of what I deem a modern workshed as I wish it to be.I'm an advocate for new and innovative tools that may accomplish a tiresome task more readily then I'm a sucker for it and the 'ol credit card takes a hidin' ....but it must be justifiable .
CheersJohnno
Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.
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28th May 2003, 11:40 AM #26
John,
Thanks for the correction, I try to seldomly make mistakes but on this occasion I have failed and I am grateful for your correction.
- Wood Borer
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28th May 2003, 11:46 AM #27
Relax wood borer,
Many aspire to, but few will achieve the levels of perfection accomplished by myself and a one or two others here. (spelling aside
Be content in the knowledge that the struggle for perfection is a noble one.Great minds discuss ideas,
average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people
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28th May 2003, 12:09 PM #28
Dave,
So what you are saying the journey is a big part of the enjoyment rather than just the destination.
This idea is similar to ideas already put forward in this thread where making the project is the major enjoyment, others have expressed the majority of enjoyment is in the finished article.
Personally most of the stuff I have made I have given away to close friends/relatives or parted with for the cost of materials to friends.
Others I charge them the cost of materials including wastage plus a good bottle or two of red and ask them to make a donation to their favourite reputable charity to make up the difference between buying the same article from a professional.
That way the professionals aren't being undercut, I get the enjoyment of designing and making, the charity benefits and the recipient benefits. Of course the is enjoyed whilst drinking it!
In other words I enjoy the designing and making part of the project. Wheras perhaps others receive greater enjoyment from the finished product.
Now Dave, as you have reached the level of near perfection, your journey is complete, you have reached your destination. How do you cope with this dilemma?
- Wood Borer
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28th May 2003, 03:02 PM #29
Mate,
I just sit back and laugh at the entire world. - keeps me endlessly amusedGreat minds discuss ideas,
average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people
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28th May 2003, 03:24 PM #30Originally posted by Wood Borer
In other words I enjoy the designing and making part of the project. Wheras perhaps others receive greater enjoyment from the finished product.
- Wood Borer
I sort of enjoy the making, I get really frustrated when the tollerances start to blow out.
I am never happy with the finished product as I can always spot flaws where others cannot. Maybe I should give more away
But I keep doing it for some strange reason. I guess I like the challenge of trying to construct something from drawing board (Computer) to finished product (I think I have found the right job). Skills are developing and the finished product is improving in my mind and I guess it is the strive for perfection which keeps me on track.
This is what turns me on as a woodworker.
All views expressed are those of Stinky.Now proudly sponsored by Binford Tools. Be sure to check out the Binford 6100 - available now at any good tool retailer.