Thread: How good is the 090 Stihl Really?

Originally Posted by Travis Edwards

ok bob you stated the 090 had no chain brake, yet on the 15th of november 2009 At 7.00 pm YOU posted a link to hunter mcphersons website that clearly showed that they had a chain brake!!!! and it was discussed in the thread by yourself, myself and others at the time. Unfortunately hunter mac have now removed the saw from the link so there is no point putting it up.

Perhaps you were too quick to assume what you saw in that picture was a chain brake. I had another look at that thread and all I can see is that you thought it might have a retro fitted brake, but I didn't claim anything either way as at that stage I was not sure.

The hypothetical 090 chain brake is again discussed in this Jul 2010 thread but once again there is no evidence of a brake.

What is interesting is I just checked again and the 090 is no longer listed on the Brazilian or Mexican Stihl websites although the Mexican site still lists the 070 and the 076.

You also had a dig at me for not reading posts, and a go at me about why they are no longer imported, If you read my first post I clearly stated that the main reason they no longer are imported is because of emissions!!! There are also OHS issues as even though the AV system was implemented on them it no longer met what worksafe etc. considered to be safe levels, the comment about the big trees etc. was clearly a bit of light humour!!!!

Sure - no problem - all I was reported was what my stihl dealer said when I asked him why we don't import the 070/090 so I was in fact supporting your statement.

SO Put the nasty pills away for ten minutes, What I was saying in my first post is that yes the 090 IS a hell of a saw! Nothing more, nothing less!!!

I agree about the saw, but that still doesn't make all of your reported data about the 090 or 880 correct.

You say that I should have looked at your chart well I did and it doesn't tell much really! it has no indication of rpm where the given values are generated. And I have seen that chart hundreds of times.

Forget the chart and read the actual post. Like I said above, I'll provide my evidence if you show me yours.

Oh and in the post previously mentioned you stated that you had never used an 090 yet you are claiming to be the fountain of knowledge about them. I have used them and all I will say is that they are a ballsy saw, well deserving of their reputation. Any further debate will be done on your own.

That's fine but I wasn't actually posting just or your benefit - other people besides us do read this forum have some rights to information from more than one source.

I never claimed to be an expert 090 user. Anyone can read a manual and point out something that is not in the manual. I'm just trying to keep the facts about 090's and other saws straight on this forum - sorry I'm not always PC about the manner in which I point these things out, but then again I don't see you as PC about life either. If I make a factual error I want to be corrected about it. If someone can't handle that then that's too bad I'll correct them anyway, there are already enough mistakes on this forum and the web as it is.

Here's Some interesting racing 090s, pics courtesy of Ric from ArboristSite.


Attachment 161098
Attachment 161099
Attachment 161100

The last two are a 163 cc model modified for CS racing.

It was, according to someone who saw it racing, "Consistently smoked by a modified 120 cc Stihl 084".

Up this way the 090 was the standard equipment for a good faller & I would hate to say how many are sitting under benches in the back sheds around the area. One fellow alone I know had 3 in his shed. Very reliable machines, the fallers would leave them in a hollow log over the weekend at the log dump. Because every body used them an extra long bar could be borrowed or bought off some one in the game for some extra large trees. Yet to see one with a chain brake. You need to wear earplugs plus muffs when operating them if you want to keep your hearing in good order.
regards inter

Hey Inter was down your way at Xmas took the back road from Kempsey to Armidale. through the back of the Dorrigo. Sure as hell wouldnt want to be lumping an 090 up an down there orfor that matter try and snigg logs

I really will have to lay my hands on one of these beasts and a stopwatch.
Was talking to an ex sawmiller and logging contractor, ( a man I have IMMENSE respect for) a couple of days ago and posed the question of how good these saws were.
His reply was that a Stihl 084, 088 or Husky 3120 will absolutely eat them. I might add that he has run all of these saws.
It gets more and more interesting doesn't it.
I am beginning to wonder if theyh are the Harley Davidson of the saw world - Loud Heavy Aggressive but outclassed by the modern bikes.
Only one way to find out I guess.

i will own up to owning one which has been under the bench for 8-10 years must dig her out one day and give her a run

Originally Posted by itsposs

Hey Inter was down your way at Xmas took the back road from Kempsey to Armidale. through the back of the Dorrigo. Sure as hell wouldnt want to be lumping an 090 up an down there orfor that matter try and snigg logs

They were pretty hardy blokes to log that country with the machinery available to them in the day. An 090 had to be carried on the shoulder a certain way or you wouldn't make through the day, in the steep & rough country around 5 day creek & chalundie there were places where a D8 was running out of puff on the bigger logs & moving granite boulders. A good faller with a good dozer operater would get out to the log dump & onto jinkers an average of 120 m3 for the day & only drop 6 - 10 trees using chain braked saws like the 3120s etc
regards inter

I have got a 090AV that was my Dad's. Feels and sounds like it has plenty of power, but when we bought a new 066 a few years ago, it will pretty well cut at the same rate as the 090, and much lighter to use. Still have a soft spot for the old beast, but very rarely use it.

Hi all,

boy, what a thread this has become! Karl, you asked quite a question! Judging from the very intersting comments and experience reports, you can see what kind of interests and emotions this vintage machine still raises! It is indeed a very fine machine and, though technically superseded, it is of a build quality that Stihl, too, can no longer afford today. More modern saws could perhaps outperform the 090, but they will not be of the same durable construction standard. More forum menbers seem to agree with me on that. Anyway, when wanting an 090, choose the AV-version, the non-AV is hard on your wrists. The failing of emission rules is the main reason for sales and import restrictions on the 070/090. I've read this in almost every efficionado-forum and i was told so by many Stihl connoisseurs, including the guy who sold me the 070AV. I can't comment on a safety brake ever been present or not. Knowing Stihl they must have tinkered around with the idea, especially on such a powerful machine with such professional sales potential. If they endorse timbersports and come up with manuals that carry a warning triangle in the header of virtually any handling topic, they must at least have thought about it. In principle there would be room inside the housing to combine the centrifugal clutch drum with an automatic inertia system, as present in many saws.

Bob, the graph is very useful, thanks for that. Although 9, 10 and 11 toothed sprockets are rather meant for timbersports purposes, i think, like cutting off as many slices of less-than-two-feet diameter softwood trunks. There are some interesting Youtube movies on that; you see guys waving the bars through the log, alternatively using the bar's down and top part. Race saws in soft wood have a clear advantage with 10- or 11-wheels. Strong as the 090 may be, it would loose too much torque with such large sprockets as a regular felling saw. Malloff's .045 rake pitch suggestion is definitely meant for soft wood, .03 is more the way to go for hardwood. Shaving off thick curls in wood is very very hard work anyway, this goes for routers and planers and all kinds of saws alike.

Great to see those 090 racer version pics. It's looks like these are not the variety in which Stihl was secretly involved with the development of the 166 cc cylinder of the original squat design, since these fit underneath the original factory fitted flat covers. In the Collector's website that i quoted in a previous post, you can see in some pics of Contra machines partly dismantled, how low profile the 070 and 090 cylinders really are. A mere look at these pics make obvious why a stroke much longer as 40 mms is not possible for this design. In Bob's racer pics, higher cylinder array experiments were clearly carried out. One machine even has a mud bike expansion type exhaust. Brilliant! This produces a very sharp trumpet-type sound and may even enhance rpm or at least efficiency as compared to fuel use. Whereas the standard 090 exhaust is very effective for its size (there is still a lot of noise but 137 ccs are very demanding on such a tiny component), i find the air filter a bit basic. It looks like a perforated anti-slip shower/bath mat, probably designed that way to make cleaning and removing/putting back easy. Although the Husqvarna filter system may not beat the filters in all Stihls, it definitely does so in the 070/090.

While rummaging on the web, i stumbled across Granberg's chainsaw accessory site. Check out their nifty ripping chain:

Granberg International Chainsaw Mills and Chainsaw Accessories - Ripping Chain | www.granberg.com

Also have a look at the nifty milling attachment:

Granberg International Chainsaw Mills and Chainsaw Accessories - Testimonials | www.granberg.com

The 090 is one of the best and most durable drive sources you can get for jobs like these. With a standard 7 tooth sprocket and .03 chain rake pitch, you will have a solution with power reserves, even in hardwood. Stihl has very nice TCT "Duro" chains. If Granberg has ripping chains in such quality, i think you will have a milling machine to drool over.

greetings

gerhard

With a bit of luck you can still find the manuals on the web. This is the link to the PDF-version of the 070. It's almost the same as the 090 , so this will give you a good impression how the machine is put together:

http://www.bayenltda.com/MOTOSIERRA%20STHIL%20070.pdf

Originally Posted by gerhard

Bob, the graph is very useful, thanks for that. Although 9, 10 and 11 toothed sprockets are rather meant for timbersports purposes,

These sprockets can also be used on low revving four stroke in a CS slabbing mill design. Either way the bar needs to be modified otherwise there is danger of the chain jumping off teh bar.

Granberg International Chainsaw Mills and Chainsaw Accessories - Ripping Chain | Granberg International Chainsaw Mills and Chainsaw Accessories | www.granberg.com

The Granberg ripping chain has been tested by a number of CS millers in the ArboristeSite and reported times are not sufficiently different to convince me one way or the other. It seems like the optimum filing angles used on this type chain has not been optimized. Weisyboy has also made his own version of this chain and found little difference.

Originally Posted by BobL

It seems like the optimum filing angles used on this type chain has not been optimized. Weisyboy has also made his own version of this chain and found little difference.

You wouldn't be referring to this thread would you bob?

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f132/h...-chain-109843/

or this one? https://www.woodworkforums.com/f132/f...-chain-111678/

I have actually done quite a bit of further testing and research since these posts and can honestly say that I think I have sorted the angles etc. out quite well.

I will also say that in a lot of instances a standard chain will outperform them. however the required hp to pull one of these is far less and will enable you to cut a larger log than standard full comp will.

This style of chain DOES give a better finish and tears less grain, but this and the required hp reduction are the only areas it wins out in. Standard single skip chain sharpened to 10 degrees will cut faster.

the granberg style of chain does work well when you are cutting purely endgrain but is not quicker by any means than standard or skip chain and is also more difficult for an amateur to maintain. Most of the data I have read shows it to be around 10 percent slower but gives a better finish, which reflects my findings. I guess it comes down to what you want, SPEED or FINISH.

Coupla things, the 090 is governed a 7500 RPM and if comparing with newer saws, they should at least have the same pitch chain i.e. don't compare one saw with 404 to one with 3/8.

Hi Bedford,

very true, and for durability's sake it's recommended to leave the governor intact. Stihl's present record is around 16,000 rpm, but that's for very modified machines in their timbersports endorsements. The 070 and 090 have changed little from the Contra design and are medium-rpm, so 10,000 is already stretching it.

And hi Sawchain,

magnificent, this tandem-090; up to 16 hp in one chainsaw! I just wondered how the bearings fare in this layout. Just like the bar's nose tip (with or without wheel) takes the strain of the motor pull when you use the bar's upper side, one of the crankshaft and sprocket bearing sets must cope with the pull of both motors in this tandem layout, or so i imagine. Do you change the bar sides for sawing now and then (= turning the entire machine 180 degrees)? Just wondered, because the needle bearings are already designed pretty minimal as they are for so much horsepower, in my humble opinion.

greetings

gerhard