Thread: so who here uses the lucas mill as their main source of income?

Well, I've been operating lucas mills as my main income for nearly 5 years - initially with a partner in one mill then with a second mill of my own. The biggest issue is getting good log supply, then a good market base. without a reliable supply of logs of particular species you are just wasting your time. the other thing to decide is whether you want to sell at the retail level or allow someone else (a wholesaler) deal with that. On the one hand, selling to a wholesaler means you get less for your timber, but on the other, you're not spending a lot of time dealing with customers. My business model has changed over the years to mostly deal with wholesalers.

As others have said, the milling on its own isn't enough, though. I do some joinery and I have a door/window joiner leasing part of my shed. I also have a CNC overhead router that we do signage and some panel-cutting with.

I don't agree with charlsie that the mill isn't enough to make a living with by itself, since I and my tailer-out can cut easily a cube of product a day, which is worth at least $1000, usually a lot more. Normally, we only cut 3 days a week and cut 2-3 cube at a time. After paying my tailer and the running costs of the mill, I end up with at least $700 for that cube, which easily covers rent, my salary and some profit. However, it's taken a long time to get there and in between there have been some very lean periods.

craig got it exactly right.

there is not enough contract milling to keep one in gainful employment.

to make money form milling and selling you need large quantities of logs avalble so when u gat an order you can cut it streight away.

its the same with many occupations doing one thing only you can get buy but you have to be flexable.

i baught my mill because we were spending so mutch money buying materials for fencing and shed construction that once i saved enough to buy the mill i can now make a good profit.

i make a decent living but to do this i have become a jack of all trades. i do property maintenance witch now includes

fencing
coinstruction of animal shelters and pens
retaining walls
mowing
slashing
whipper snipping
general garden maintenace
broad acre spraying
mobile sawmilling
timber sales
and watever else we are aksed to do.

like craig said log supply has alot to do with it. i get $200 a cube for pine sleepers and if i could get $1000 per cube before costs i could make a living from the mill but horses for courses i supose

Ever thought of adding a chipper to the list Carl??

I just paid $180/hr for the privilege but felt it was worth it.

i have but the outlay for a chipper is enormous i would tehn have to buy a bin truck to transport the chip.

and if i had a truck i would have no excuse not to buy a bobcat. and if i had a bobcat there would be a strong need for an excavator.

lol, Carl. You and I have the same disease, I'm afraid.

My 12" chipper has just bitten the dust for the last time. It's been on the go as a rebuild project, but I've finally decided it's not worth it. It's not worth much and it was going to cost me nearly twice what it's worth to fix it and make it reliable. I don't really need one, anyway, but it was nice to have it there.

I'd love a bobcat, but I can't quite justify one. An excvator would be even better, but even less affordable, although there might be some cheapies coming up with people going broke. Just a 4 tonner would be good.

Originally Posted by weisyboy

i have but the outlay for a chipper is enormous i would tehn have to buy a bin truck to transport the chip.

and if i had a truck i would have no excuse not to buy a bobcat. and if i had a bobcat there would be a strong need for an excavator.

Not really Carl - there is a bloke here in Ballarat that has a tip tray on his Landcruiser ute and uses that.

Currie's Mini Chip

(03) 5334 7541
Western Hwy
Leigh Creek VIC 3352

Cheers

yes i am watch and waiting for prices to come down.

whats going to happen to the chipper you have mate?

that is not a bad idea i took 5 loads of branches to the dump today.

Originally Posted by weisyboy

whats going to happen to the chipper you have mate?

Already gone, mate, as spares. It really wasn't worth fixing, sadly.

Originally Posted by Burnsy

I agree whole heartedly with Charlsie's comments about circumstances. There is also the fact that most Lucas owners do it because they love cutting up logs and much of what they cut is for themselves over time. It would be really interesting to see the figues on actual gross revenuef rom paying customers both through timber sales and contract milling from a lucas averaged out of the number of hours the mill has run from someone like Allen who has done it for a long time and has cut for both himself and others. My guess is that the average lucas would over time earn about $40 per engine hour before costs, maybe higher if you never cut for yourself.

Mike, for me - doing custom jobs is how we've managed to get by, it covers expense and keeps income ticking over. To make money and have the mill really profitable I need logs, like everyone. With logs, I can run the mill 5 days a week at home, process around 15 cube of log a week on my own and 30 a week with the right offsider - this will historically produce either 7.5 cut cube or 15 cut cube. If I use 1 cut cube to furnish the 'orders' for timber I get each month that's around $1,300 and the remaining 6.5 or 14 cube I can sell every stick as soon as it hits the ground for around $800 per cut cube. This gives a monthly, 5 day a week income of either $6,500 or $12,500. If I have the right offsider and therefore pay them $1,000 per week to keep them. I have $8,500 per month to pay myself, running costs and get more logs. The only part of this equation which is variable is the 'orders' for timber - once logs are secured.

Then there is firewood from tailings/offcuts, slabs from bottom flitches, sawdust for gardens all which a second offsider can be taking care of 2 days a week as well.

As everyone knows a mill needs logs - you can't make money without logs and you can't get a reliable supply of logs without paying for them....

Originally Posted by Burnsy

Been thinking more about this log cube rate you guys charge on and I can't make it work in my mind (this was after someone called yesterday asking for a cube rate - which one of you trouble makers was it).

What do you do when you show up and someone says OK I want this log cut as 50x30 for shed flooring and then the next guy wants 200x200 for big posts. The first guy gets a great deal and you get shafted, the second guy gets shafted and you get a good deal.

As long as your work ethic is good and you don't stand around scratching your nuts or talking on your phone all day, an hourly rate is much fairer for everyone in my mind.

Mike, you are right with the comparison of different sizes - this is why I have a standard log cube rate and an extra log cube rate if all sizes out of the log are 6 square inches or less, in cross section. if they want a few, then that's okay, but I've cut whole logs into stickers and also survey pegs, you're volume for the day reduces drastically and my 20% increase doesn't cover the drop in volume, but I've found anymore is too expensive.

Some of you may already know - I am one of those guys who 'may' spend a great deal of time talking... so an hourly rate isn't always good for me personally. Also I figure if I don't buy a crane truck and it takes me an hour to just get a log in the mill, then why should the customer pay $60 for that? They have no timber for that $60.

At then end of the day, I know how long it takes me to cut 1 cube of log, I know I need to cut around 3 cube of log to be productive/profitable for a full days milling, if I talk and mess about for half the day and don't get 3 log cube cut - then I've spent a days worth of time to recover a lot less income - my hourly rate takes a big dive, so even though, I know my work ethic is good (on jobs - Wifey always says to me "how come you work so much when you go away milling, but don't do it here?" ) doing a log cube rate keeps me working much better than an hourly rate.

Cut cube rate - I think has the potential to be very unfair, the miller has no power of the quality of the log or what is inside of it - neither does the customer. In this scheme of charging the logs can all be full of pipe and termite galleries - the miller busts his guts and machine all day to produce very little worthwhile timber. The other extreme, the logs are terrific and the miller pumps out heaps of good timber for very little effort or expense - both situations are very unfair for one party.

Given all the possibilities/probabilities and knowing myself included, I've found it is better for me and the customer to charge by log volume

carl and craig, the 2nd best thing i bought was the bobcat with forks,much quicker than any track machine

yep i got a 4wd wheel tractor with a front end loader that i just put forks on. great for at home but its not worth taking it to jobs.

its not hard to load logs by hand. i loaded a 4 ton bluegum a coupla weeks back by myself.

A great thread!