Thread: Milling Learning Curve - How long do I allow?

I recon if you could find a miller in your area would be the best way to get some training. I was able to watch the chap that I bought mine off, do some milling, When I got it home, I just did what he did and asked questions as they arrised. These days you can ask here on the forum. I think if your'e a jack of all trades you won't have too much trouble producing timber. Lucas have demos at trade shows etc, give them a call.
I think the heat up your way will determine how much you can mill per day, also how fit, motivated you are. I can mill about 5-7 large logs per day but It does not get too hot here. Have you considered putting up some shade/rain type shelter to work under ?
regards John

G'day Chris,
Private message sent, give me a call and I'll talk you through it. Tim

In my opinion, the actual use of the mill is the easy part. A day or two with a good miller and you would be producing timber yourself. The hard part is knowing how to get the best out the logs you have, what species are more favourable to certain cuts, and the abilty to assess a log, its faults and features and produce good quality timber.

All the decisions of quarter or back sawing, boards or slabs, what can I get away with and what will crack when it dries, and many other aspects all come into play evey time you open up a log, and quite often you will change your mind once you have started.

Sometimes you can learn a lot by tailing out for a good miller, and watching what they are producing out the other end. What are they leaving behind, what are they looking for and why. Producing packs of first grade timber does not happen accidently. Everyone buggers up a few logs when they start out, but they usually don't find out until they are bent and split 3 years later. It is then that you really start to learn.

So do plenty of reserch on the species you intend to mill, and what are the preferred cuts and sizes people want. No use having a shed full of timber all in the wrong sizes.
Most of all, be patient, look, listen and learn. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum how could help you out if you're keen enough.

Anyway, just a few thoughts.
Good luck
James.

Excellent Post James.

I have just experienced the learning curve
Mine was plantation pine so not as technical to cut ...gladly
The thing I was surprised by was the time taken and logistics of what to do with the resulting timber stacking and storing is really time consuming
With 100 machine hours (Lucas 8-30) I feel there would have been another 200 hours involved in the operation
Building to cover the mill and timber also took some time but well worth it in the end
After the 100 hours my blade now needs retipping ..... Amazing how much it had cut
All in all it has been a great experience but dont underestimate the physicality either ...... I found it really hard work for one person

The operation of the Lucasmill is very simple, you will work it out on your first log.

The knowledge about the timber is a different story but if you are a woodworker a lot of that will make a lot of sense. It might take 50 of your logs before you start to get some feeling for how to cut which log to produce the best timber. This does not mean that out of you these logs you won't get useable timber.

My first log was cut into the first exposed 6x8 post of our timber frame house. Three years later, still a perfect post.

It is hard work even with two people, but very rewarding. If it is for personal use it's well worth it, if you are planning to do it as a business... there might be easier ways to make money. Milling a few days in a row really wears you out.

I have been reading your other tread, beautiful logs you have got there! But you must know now how hard work log handling is.

The "physicality" is always something I've questioned with the lucas mill. Surely it can't be too hard for some of you smart guys to grab a few 12v winch motors, some chain and a few sprockets and build yourselves an electric feed and lift system.

Then its just a case of finding a shady tree to sit under with the control panel and taking the timber off each time you finish a cut.

Originally Posted by Jamesg1981

The "physicality" is always something I've questioned with the lucas mill. Surely it can't be too hard for some of you smart guys to grab a few 12v winch motors, some chain and a few sprockets and build yourselves an electric feed and lift system.

Then its just a case of finding a shady tree to sit under with the control panel and taking the timber off each time you finish a cut.

they are not that bad, the best thing about a lucas mill is that they are simple, start adding control systems etc, and that is just more that can go wrong, but yes it can be done, for me it is easy to push a swing mill, it's just work.
Compared to a chainsaw mill however, there is no comparison, c/s mills are very hard as they are cutting more timber at one time.
regards John

Hi guys.

Just a few thoughts in response to the idea of winch motors and automating the Lucas Mill. That would be fine if you are just pumping out timber sleepers and volume is your aim. But if you are aiming for quality, you cant beat standing right over the mill and getting a close up view of what is showing on the face of the board, variations in the color of the sawdust due to rot, hairline cracks and shakes, and the list goes on. I will often run the mill back and move the board across just 1/2" to leave something out or include a feature, as my aim is always to cut the absolute best timber the log can provide.

I mainly cut for matched sets of boards for dining tables, so you need to be watching the boards very closely as they come off, and make these small adjustments for unexpected faults. I think anyone would struggle to do this operating from a remote control panel and keep the quality up.

Just a few thoughts.
Cheers
James

PS Thanks BobL

Originally Posted by Jamesg1981

The "physicality" is always something I've questioned with the lucas mill. Surely it can't be too hard for some of you smart guys to grab a few 12v winch motors, some chain and a few sprockets and build yourselves an electric feed and lift system.

Then its just a case of finding a shady tree to sit under with the control panel and taking the timber off each time you finish a cut.

That aspect (manual operation of the Lucasmill) is not what makes it hard work. I agree with Tassietimbers, it is very valuable to be right next to the blade to cut the best timber. Also to be able to feel how hard the blade is working and adjust the speed accordingly is very handy.

The physical hard work starts with the log handling. Second the sawn timber handling. Then moving the mill around on site. All of this on often rough terrain. You can have "a rest" every now an then to operate the mill.

After milling for two years I bought a small loader with a loggrab and forks. I now set the mill up in the best location on site and there is almost no physically heavy work involved anymore. The loader is a much bigger investment then the mill so you would have to cut lots more timber to repay that but in my opinion any improvements/alterations in the milling process to make things easier are better spent at the material handling site of it.

Just wondering Chris, has anyone given you some guidence on selecting and cutting the logs you are salvaging? You have made a start but I would love to see some photos of your rewards, but not just the best ones.
If your'e new at the game, there is a chance that you may be bringing logs back to the milling area that will not make the grade. Before any milling job for another person, I personally walk the property with an axe and paint can, checking all the logs and marking out exactly what to take and what to leave behind. I found in the early days (during the learning curve) customers were dragging up all sorts of logs and expecting I produce good timber. As the years go by you become more selective with the logs if you have a particular grade timber in mind.
It you are not sure, find a reputable miller who mills higher grade timber who will go for a walk with you and give you some guidance. It can save you a lot of time, effort and money by choosing the right logs the first time, rather than the cost of recovering and processing logs that should have been left in the bush.

The learning curve in producing good quality timber does not start when the logs are at the landing, it starts with the log selection.

Before you race off into the bush to get another 100 or so logs, it might pay to get a local miller in for two or three days to actually see what timber your logs can produce. You will get a lot of valuable info from this 'test run', and will give you a clearer picture on whether the purchase of a mill is justified.

(This is an important part of the learning process, as once you have justified in your own mind ( and the wife) it is worth buying a mill, the decision to buy a crane truck, bobcat, excavator, newer mill, bigger slabber, bigger shed, new chainsaw with a bigger bar, bar oil in 44 gallon drums, forklift, etc., etc., is a very simple process. You always start your justification with "Well, now that I've got a mill.......!!)

Hope the advice helps.
Cheers
James

Thanks everyone for the pointers. It seems pretty much agreed that using the mill is the easy (ish) part which is pretty much what I had assumed. It's obviously producing decent quality timber that's a lot harder.

The suggestion to watch and more importantly to help someone mill is where I'll try to go with that.

James and Bernt you probably went to the crux of the thing "how to look at the log and know what to do with it, how to deal with it if it goes wrong etc. Having been at the receiving end of crook timber I've got an idea of what I DON'T want to produce. But there is obviously a fair bit of art and science to it.

James your comments were particularly enlightening. As regards the logs, I had a neighbour who is an old timbercutter from this area, go around with me looking at the logs I was thinking of pulling out. He did the Yes/No thing for me, so whilst he is not a miller he was going on the basis of what he was taking when he was cutting in his day, working for the then Forestry Commission.

He did echo what you are saying about good timber starting with good log selection. Apparently this was drummed into the cutters back then also.

Having said all that I'm sure I have pulled some out that will turn out to be not much good as I tried to interpret what I had been told to others we found later. Fortunately in most instances we didn't spend too much effort and money getting some of these, rather "they were hooked on as the dozer was going past anyway"

I have to say I really like the part where I'm allowed to get all this extra gear once I start I mean I have it on your authority that I have to have this stuff so there can be no argument (that's some theory!!)

I've basically set up two milling sites with a view to getting the finished timber out and all I really have to do for both is to run the grader over some of the tracks so as to have truck access. I'll set up some shade wings so should be reasonably comfortable.

Bernt and woodywpecker, you make a good point about the physical work.
Especially in this climate, January is usually 35 c and 80% humidity by 9am so I won't be doing any milling then. I do have a farmhand labourer who can help out and we always have backpackers looking for labouring work so if this gets to produce any quantity I'm covered. I have a Case backhoe/loader with forks so the material handling side is a bit easier. Having done some renovations with big timber beams I have a pretty good idea how much sweat you can raise moving the stuff around.

All in all I'm looking forward to moving this whole project ahead, even though like most things it turns out to be more complex than on initial appearances.

We seem to getting an early start to the wet here (225 mm or 9 inches this week) so things will slow up a bit, but give me more time to get organised and researched.

Thank you all for the advice, I reckon it will save me quite a few headaches and a good few $$.

Cheers
Chris

iv been going 5 years and still learning every day, 1 year before id think bout cutting for anyone else 2 before i sold anything that i cut from my logs.

I think a lot will depend on what level you eventually decide to enter this project.

If your intention is to cut sufficient timber to build your house and possibly after that supply a neighbour or two with timber you will work things out, make a few mistakes, but at the end of the day you will have the sawn timber and a mill that you can keep using or re-sell.

However, as has been discussed elsewhere, it may be just easier to pay somebody to do the work on your behalf.

If on the other hand you are looking to use timber milling as say a supplementary or full time income you need to look at the enterprise from a completely different perspective. To my mind it then becomes less about milling the timber but increasingly about handling the timber. Manual handling is back breaking work and if this becomes literally the case you have just stuffed up your livelihood.

You will quickly work out that you need some decent machines to make life easier and to head off personal injury. This is now starting to involve some expenditure. Also once you have milled the logs on your property, where do you anticipate going from there. What is your market? Who is going to buy your timber and will you have enough customers?

These are all questions and situations our mobile millers face each day. On the question of experience in milling, when I bought my mill the manufacturer offered a five day course prior to the purchase, which would be refunded if I went ahead and bought the sawmill. I did that. In fact I would have been hopelessly out of my depth with a bandsaw mill without that facility.

Probably a swingsaw mill, such as the Lucas, is easier to get the hang of. I don't know if any of the manufacturers offer similar courses. Maybe you could tag along with them, but probably not get the opportunity for hands-on experience. I imagine they supply a CD for the set up, but I am sure the owners on the forum can help here.

Lastly, you have to want to do it. Sawmilling would be a terrible chore if your heart was not in it.

Regards
Paul