Thread: How much for milling timber

Rick, The method of charging is a matter for the two parties concerned to decide and agree on. Hourly rate is one way of doing it, another is by sawn volume and the other method is by log volume. These options may also be offset by the miller being paid in timber. It all very much depends on which method best suits both parties. There is no hard and set method as there are many variables; ease of access to the logs, available machinery, labour assistance, specie being cut, sizes, miller skill,etc etc. If you read back over past threads where these matters have been discussed you will get a good idea what would be considered a fair thing.

Unless you have specific use for the wood I would avoid getting paid in wood.
Remember that you then have to find a long term place to dry and store it properly - i.e. you just can't leave it out in the sun to turn into pretzels.

Maybe ask what other Lucas millers are charging and seeing as you are learning charge 20 to 30% less till you get unto full speed.

Hiring charges should not just include your time but also fuel and oil, and fair service and wear and tear costs of the mill.
Don't forget your travel time if you have to go some distance.

I'd give it a lot more than a couple months. This is what gives Lucas millers a bad name - doing cut jobs for pay and not knowing anything about it. Anyone can buy a mill and then purport to be good enough to be paid, my rate reflects the running costs of milling, but also the knowledge, experience and skill that has come with doing it full time for 10 years.

Think about it and electrician comes to your house and gets paid after doing it for 3 years, same as a plumber, carpenter any other tradesman. What would you pay a plumber who had been doing it for two months, no knowledge, no experience, no skills in the job - just has the tools...

Originally Posted by Sigidi

I'd give it a lot more than a couple months. This is what gives Lucas millers a bad name - doing cut jobs for pay and not knowing anything about it. Anyone can buy a mill and then purport to be good enough to be paid, my rate reflects the running costs of milling, but also the knowledge, experience and skill that has come with doing it full time for 10 years.

Think about it and electrician comes to your house and gets paid after doing it for 3 years, same as a plumber, carpenter any other tradesman. What would you pay a plumber who had been doing it for two months, no knowledge, no experience, no skills in the job - just has the tools...

I know exactly what you're saying Sigidi. I did the same with my excavator, only charged $50 ph when started, 7 years later, $95 now. I wasn't expecting to charge like a bull but my time and machine must be worth something, even if it's for friends to begin with? Over the years, customers have asked me "How long does it take to become a good painter?", (I was a house painter for decades). They think I'm joking when I tell them "About 10 years". I do know what you mean. I'm 55 and have been around the block a few times as they say. LOL I appreciate the posts.
Rick

Hi,

I agree with Sigidi about charging without experience, however you've got to start somewhere.

In my experience a cubic meter rate works well in this case. This way you are the one investing your time trying to produce the best timber you can. Ones you get more experienced it will become more profitable without having to change your rates. I find you often rely on return customers in this business, it is not that easy to charge different next time.

It does get a bit tricky when people want to assist (e.g.stack the timber themselves) I prefer to give customers a discount on the rate if that is the case. Please be aware: you can cut perfect boards but the stacking is just as important for the end product. If you are not in control of the stacking chances are the customer gets lazy with it, ending up with unusable timber which is just as bad for your (and Lucasmillers in general) reputation as you producing unusable timber straight of the saw.

You'll have to work out a rate yourself taking in account extra costs you might have, additional machinery you are using. I get you might be new to milling but your experience in other parts of the job (operating log handling machines) should be worth something.
I think it is quite fair to base a price on cutting on average two cubic meters of stacked and sticked timber in a a day. While you are learning that might be hard work to get to, when more experienced you might get a bit more now and then.

Good luck and enjoy

I certainly would not recommend that you mill for income until you have much more experience under your belt..if you stuff up someones log(s),and they decide to litigate for losses,then the consequences could be dire..the milling process of retrieving 'useable' timber is not as easy as one may think.You need to know a lot more than simply pushing the blade through the log.Be patient,learn as you go,and become experienced but not at the expense of someone else's logs,as it may come back and haunt you...MM

It is a great way to lose friends by jumping in to mill their logs without experience. To charge them for it only makes it worse.
One is obliged to wreck their own logs first. Once you have overcome doing that you could consider wreaking havoc elsewhere.
As MM said , there is more to it than just pushing the saw through a log.
Once you are at a stage where you feel you can be of some assistance to a customer and no longer bad publicity for every Lucas miller out there, it would be time to consider some remuneration for services rendered. I would suggest the sawn M3 rate would be the fairest all round as the customer is only paying for production. Mind you, this can be a bit hard on the miller when it comes to gnarly, twisted, rotting, springy, metal infested and rock hard logs. And we haven't even considered the difficult site issues yet. This is where the time rate comes in. Even a good miller can be held up by all sorts of unforeseen and unpreventable delays. This have to be taken into account or the miller soon becomes a nonprofit organisation. As I said in my first post to this thread , there are a lot of variables. It is great the other guys have chimed in and given their takes on experience.

Originally Posted by Sigidi

I'd give it a lot more than a couple months. This is what gives Lucas millers a bad name - doing cut jobs for pay and not knowing anything about it. Anyone can buy a mill and then purport to be good enough to be paid, my rate reflects the running costs of milling, but also the knowledge, experience and skill that has come with doing it full time for 10 years.

Think about it and electrician comes to your house and gets paid after doing it for 3 years, same as a plumber, carpenter any other tradesman. What would you pay a plumber who had been doing it for two months, no knowledge, no experience, no skills in the job - just has the tools...

At least the plumber is qualified, he has served his apprenticeship. Many millers, on the other hand, have just gone out and bought a mill with no experience whatsoever. Frightening

$165/hr If customer wants to watch,help,get in the way,offer advice double it.We work with timber not for it

Wow, I didn't expect such a feedback. Much appreciated guys. And I promise not to worsen the Lucas Mill reputation! lol Not to worry guys, I may be a newbie to milling but I catch on to things like this faster than most. I've worked with timber all my life. I built two homes by myself. I make tables, windows, doors, spiral staircase, turn bowls, stair spindals, newal posts and on and on. My dad was a logger in Oregon, taught me how to fall trees at 15. Been digging out trees for 7 years and always thought about the trees I could've milled! They all got burnt! I know all that doesn't make up for milling experience. I've got at least 30 logs to practice on at my place. I've already got logs to mill at frends places and get to keep the timber. Will use the experience for setting up saw at other places and different terrains No charge! I think I can handle this guys. Keep the posts comin.

Rick

Originally Posted by Rickaroonie

Wow, I didn't expect such a feedback. Much appreciated guys. And I promise not to worsen the Lucas Mill reputation! lol Not to worry guys, I may be a newbie to milling but I catch on to things like this faster than most. I've worked with timber all my life. I built two homes by myself. I make tables, windows, doors, spiral staircase, turn bowls, stair spindals, newal posts and on and on. My dad was a logger in Oregon, taught me how to fall trees at 15. Been digging out trees for 7 years and always thought about the trees I could've milled! They all got burnt! I know all that doesn't make up for milling experience. I've got at least 30 logs to practice on at my place. I've already got logs to mill at frends places and get to keep the timber. Will use the experience for setting up saw at other places and different terrains No charge! I think I can handle this guys. Keep the posts comin.

Rick

It sounds like you are away to an excellent start. Good luck and enjoy. Remember, this is highly addictive. And, to the best of my knowledge, there is no cure. After forty years in the timber game I still can't seem to find my way out.

I'd say the only charge to be applied would be mill running costs...even if you applied a first year apprentice rate that is too much in my book, remembering the first year apprentice is directly overseen by a fully qualified tradesman whereas in this case its more akin to a first year apprentice being dropped on site with the builders trailer and the builder takes off - the apprentice knows what it should be when he's finished, but not a clue how to get there and worse still no idea how to fix anything if the customers resource is being stuffed up.

I cut my own logs for 18 months, for 6 months I cut what friends/family asked but they supplied fuel - no payment.

Originally Posted by Sigidi

. . . .I cut my own logs for 18 months, for 6 months I cut what friends/family asked but they supplied fuel - no payment.

I reckon that's a bit harsh and it should be possible to negotiate some sort of a payment (above running cost) with anyone for a service or product irrespective of experience.
The thing to do is be totally up front about your experience with the person you are offering the service to.
The same applies whether any or some payment is made.
I would say up front, "I have limited experience, if you get a pro to mill your logs they are more likely get a better quality product out of it than I can"
Then if there is a cock up, the log owner can't say they weren't warned.
Yes, the owner of the logs is unlikely to know the ins and outs of risking their logs on a newbie but it is still their decision.

Originally Posted by BobL

I reckon that's a bit harsh and it should be possible to negotiate some sort of a payment (above running cost) with anyone for a service or product irrespective of experience.
The thing to do is be totally up front about your experience with the person you are offering the service to.
The same applies whether any or some payment is made.
I would say up front, "I have limited experience, if you get a pro to mill your logs they are more likely get a better quality product out of it than I can"
Then if there is a cock up, the log owner can't say they weren't warned.
Yes, the owner of the logs is unlikely to know the ins and outs of risking their logs on a newbie but it is still their decision.

Milling with a Disclaimer. I like it. All care but no responsibility taken. Enter at your own risk. I think I might hang an L plate on the end of my mill