sawmill comparisons

**weisyboy** · 13th November 2008, 08:22 PM

here is a coupla snipits form an article writen by carl peterson the bloke who claims to have invented the swing mill.

Sawmill Comparisons Disclaimer:
This page has been prepared by myself, Carl Peterson, the inventor of the original Peterson Portable Swingblade Sawmill. Although I may bring an informed bias towards these comparisons, I have taken great pains to present the true and relevent facts as I see and understand them. I have been involved in the portable milling industry longer than most, and take some pride that the entire swing-blade revolution emitted from my own backyard. During the 29 years since I first envisioned the swingblade concept, I have studied every possible avenue of portable sawmilling. I have used the felling axe, drowned in my own sweat and sawdust while pit-sawing, struggled with chainsaw slabbing, tried Pacific bench sawing, twin-saw operation, and use of bandsaw mills. I have sawed in the USA, Canada, Fiji, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, Papua New Guinea, Australia, and New Zealand, encountering just about every possible type of timber. Consequently, there is probably no one alive better qualified to advise and critique the various milling technologies. I believe I have been gracious and fair in my evaluations. I invite you to share the knowlege I have gained from all these experiences. With this information, you can easily compare the strengths of band saw mills, double bladed sawmills ("quarter saws"), circle mills, and swing-blade sawmills against the requirements of your specific situation. If you feel I have included any annoying errors of fact, I invite you to email me at [email protected] so it can be made right.

Comparisons- Swing-Blade Sawmills

The "swingers" have really taken the portable sawmill market by storm. Time and time again they have shown at portable sawmill shootouts, through Lucas and Peterson, to be able to out-gun other mills costing two or three times as much. In most versions highly portable, they have also been able to merge great cutting speed, consistent accuracy, with very high recovery rates; usually surpassing bandsaws in recovery in practical field situations. The swing blade saw kerf is usually well under 1/4", with some special applications possible using just over 1/8" kerf. But the secret here is not in the thin kerf. The real secret lies in the consistent accuracy and consistent sizing achievable. The relatively smaller swing blades distort less than larger circular blades, and are more stable in the cut. And because they have the entire motor horsepower focused on a single cut in each direction, they effectively cut twice as fast as an equivalent twin saw system laboring through two cuts simultaneously.

Swing saw blades are cheap and easy to maintain. They can be sharpened on the mill in less than a minute or two, sharpened perhaps a hundred times before being retoothed, and require only a couple of sharpenings per day. Obviously, a sharp blade will cut faster than a dull one, but at least on a swinger a dull blade will still cut accurate timbers. In the final analysis, the blade maintenance costs on swingers are only about 1/10the the cost of bandsaw blade maintenance.

Another advantage of the swingblade mill is the ability to "double cut" with the horizontal positioned circular blade. With the Peterson mill this is easily effected by first sawing on the left side of the log with the right side of the blade, sliding the carriage to the right, and by then sawing on the right side of the log with the left side of the blade. With the Lucas, the carriage is lifted and rotated 180 degrees to achieve a similar end. Both the Lucas and the Peterson "ATS" are at their best sawing logs larger than 20" in diameter. The Peterson "WPF" is equally at home with either small or larger logs, and also boasts a single rise and fall mechanism.

Lucas swingblade mill has been around in the USA longer than Peterson. The Lucas mill began as an early Peterson-type mill with the addition of two rise and fall winches. It has become a slick outfit, well marketed and supported by Baily's, and generally well presented when new. There are probably five times more Lucas mills in America than Petersons. Second hand Lucas's are far more abundant, and can often be had at a bargain. A good Lucas mill can achieve awsome production on large logs equalling the Peterson, and in most configurations is at least slightly less expensive. On the down side, cheaper materials are used, the machine is more prone to rusting, Lucas blades are more vulnerable to heating and distortion, and the Lucas is generally made for earlier consignment to the scrap heap. From an operator's point of view, there is a lot of walking required, as the winches are located at oppositie ends of the tracks. When used by a single operator, double cutting becomes all but impossible, or at least impractical, as the carriage must be completely turned around. As well, the tracks become dangerously skewed when dropping down one end at a time.

Petersons sawmills boast a lot of precious metal in the construction, being predominantly stainless steel and aluminum. The Peterson blade locking mechanism is reportedly easier to use, more operator friendly, and more reliable than the Lucas gas strut. Double cutting, difficult with the Lucas, is extremely easy to effect on the Peterson. Peterson also makes a 10" cut version, an automated version (the "ASM"), and a small electric version called the "Skillmill" costing only US $3900.

The Peterson "ATS" (all terrain sawmill) uses two winches at one end, saving boot leather and time walking back and forth, and making accurate sizing easier. The "ATS" does not have the constraining top cross member that the Lucas has, which limits the log length ability on large diameter logs.

The Peterson "WPF" is equally at home cutting large or small logs, being transported between sites or in fixed site arrangement, and in cutting short logs or very long logs up to 60 feet long. The "WPF" is Peterson's most popular commercial-grade mill. Although significantly more expensive than either the Lucas, or the Peterson "ATS", the "WPF" mill offers better functionality, more flexibility, easier access for operator and log, and improved accuracy. An electric rise and fall option adds to operator convenience.

If you are a new mill buyer hoping to earn a reasonable commercial income, the "swinger" is definitely the way to go!
And why settle for second best when you can buy a brand new Peterson Portable Sawmill for just a little more?

not byased at all

**Sigidi** · 14th November 2008, 01:58 AM

They can be sharpened on the mill in less than a minute or two, sharpened perhaps a hundred times before being retoothed, and require only a couple of sharpenings per day

I love this bit, I am yet to get more than 30 sharpens from a blade, and more often than not, sharpening is quick for it's gains returned, but nowhere near as quick as two minutes closer to 10min, but Maybe I'm slow on things. That must be how I've melted through my 4th muffler - with how slow I go hmmm?

When used by a single operator, double cutting becomes all but impossible

And this one, well I always thought I was good... now I have the man who is

Consequently, ...no one alive better qualified to advise and critique the various milling technologies.

stating that I am performing all but the impossible on my mill. Now I KNOW I'm good, thank you Carl Peterson.

How about this one...?

...the machine is more prone to rusting...generally made for earlier consignment to the scrap heap

Let's have a poll on who has the oldest Lucas, still running of course. Mine is 4 years old, she runs fine, cuts great and I'm not sure how long it will be for this early consignment to a scrap heap...

Oh and the last one for tonight/this morning...

From an operator's point of view, (with a lucas)there is a lot of walking required

don't tell anyone about the bloody timber you have to pick up in a day Mr. Peterson, I'm sure you are right, they would be more bothered about walking 6-7m to the other winch versus the 3-4 tonne they will need to pick up in each day milling

Where did you find this trite Carl?

**DJ’s Timber** · 14th November 2008, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sigidi

Let's have a poll on who has the oldest Lucas, still running of course. Mine is 4 years old, she runs fine, cuts great and I'm not sure how long it will be for this early consignment to a scrap heap...

I think I'm might be in the running for oldest here

, mine is dated 6th of '96. Original motor had been rebuilt once when I got it and is now on its second motor which has been upped from a 20hp to an electric start 22hp

Was made before they starting making the end-frames collapsible, you had to take the chains off before you could pull the end-frames apart

, not any more

I've modified mine so that it's similar to the current ones now

**Burnsy** · 14th November 2008, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by DJ's Timber

I think I'm might be in the running for oldest here

, mine is dated 6th of '89. Original motor had been rebuilt once when I got it and is now on its second motor which has been upped from a 20hp to an electric start 22hp

Was made before they starting making the end-frames collapsible, you had to take the chains off before you could pull the end-frames apart

, not any more

I've modified mine so that it's similar to the current ones now

That is interesting considering this quote from their website "The Lucas family established Lucas Mill Pty Ltd in March 1994. Commencing operations in a small farm shed, the business was started with the objective of earning a sufficient income to sustain the Lucas families. With limited expectations, it came as a welcome surprise that orders for over 50 machines were placed in the first month of manufacturing – a quantity the Lucas’ had thought might be their annual output. In the months to come, demand did not decline, but grew and has continued to grow at a sustainable rate over the past twelve years. In 2004, over 1000 machines were produced and sold both within Australia and across the world. To date over 10,000 machines have been sold into over 65 countries around the world."
They must have been making them for quite some time on the side before the company was formed. Any idea when the first Lucas was made?

**DJ’s Timber** · 14th November 2008, 12:11 PM

Sorry my mistake

should be '96

**Sigidi** · 14th November 2008, 01:48 PM

yeah I love it when people are just so blatently biased toward one thing they slag off others ot try and support their point of view. Me I just love Lucas mills, I'm happy to tell people I've never tried using a Peterson. I've seen an ASM first hand up close and wasn't impressed, and stories from the operator about how difficult it was to be worked on didn't impress me either...

**weisyboy** · 14th November 2008, 05:45 PM

he also slags off just about eery other sawmill ever made

http://www.truthaboutax.com/site/151...ge/875294/site

turns out hes really into conspiracy therys

**Ianab** · 14th November 2008, 09:28 PM

Just to clarify.. Karl no longer has any financial interest in Peterson Sawmills.
So his opinons are completely his own.

It's now run by his daughter Kerris although I'm not sure of the full shareholding and management.

There was a long and bitter court case between Lucas and Peterson. Simple version, Lucas applied for a patent on the swingmill idea that Peterson were already selling. Patent appeared to be legit, but on appeal it was overturned as it was just a combination of two already existing concepts and the patent was invalid

Only ones that got rich was the lawyers.

Both mills work as advertised, they have various advantage and dis-advantages, but it all comes down to Holden vs Ford. Both mills saw logs.

Ian

**tlbsg** · 15th November 2008, 09:49 PM

i agree when talking about the lucas and the ats peterson holden or falcon but after using both and then buying a peterson wpf , those saws cant compare with the wpf

**Arthur Dyason** · 16th November 2008, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ianab

Just to clarify.. Karl no longer has any financial interest in Peterson Sawmills.
So his opinons are completely his own.

It's now run by his daughter Kerris although I'm not sure of the full shareholding and management.

There was a long and bitter court case between Lucas and Peterson. Simple version, Lucas applied for a patent on the swingmill idea that Peterson were already selling. Patent appeared to be legit, but on appeal it was overturned as it was just a combination of two already existing concepts and the patent was invalid

Only ones that got rich was the lawyers.

Both mills work as advertised, they have various advantage and dis-advantages, but it all comes down to Holden vs Ford. Both mills saw logs.

Ian

Ian

I agree with you about the saws milling timber. Same goes for ALL types of sawmills. swingers or not. Its down to the customers preference.

My preference is our swingers although after having designed two bandsaws I can see the potential for small softwoods using them.

As for Karls opinions, yes they are his OWN but he is slanted ONLY towards the Peterson and is very blinkered to them.

Originally Posted by weisyboy

generally made for earlier consignment to the scrap heap

with regards to the scrap heap. How many OLD Petersons are still working or should we ask what % of mills 20 years old are still working from the original number sold?

Same goes for any other mill. Most bandsaws are made from panted mild steel. How many 20 year old or older portable sawmills (ie those out in the weather) are still working?

arthur

**weisyboy** · 16th November 2008, 10:20 AM

a god mate of my father has an old peterson wpf and its falling to bits. it no longer cuts well. and is becoming harder to operate. tehre is to many things that can go wrong on it to many chains and handles for my liking.

things are breaking left right and center and he always takes care of his machinery. and he knows what he is doing he is a 3th generation sawmiller and ahs owned comertial sawmills for 50 years. he now goes aroeund doing tickets for al the sawmills and inspecting for ocupational health and safety. as well as doing chainsaw tickets.

**Sigidi** · 16th November 2008, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by tlbsg

i agree when talking about the lucas and the ats peterson holden or falcon but after using both and then buying a peterson wpf , those saws cant compare with the wpf

tlbsg, what is it about the WPF you feel is better than the ATS or Lucas?

**tlbsg** · 17th November 2008, 07:31 PM

sigidi i like one winch for rise and fall will mod it for electric winch one day high low rail set up works well for me l love my mill but are expensive get what you pay for i guess by the way my last name is not peterson

**Sigidi** · 17th November 2008, 09:58 PM

Hey That's cool, my last name isn't lucas either

So you have the hi -low tracks and the head rises using a single winch? at one end? on the head frame? I'm not familiar with it other than some shorts from the vids Peterson's push out - can you post some pics and describe it a bit?

**tlbsg** · 17th November 2008, 10:08 PM

the Winch Production Frame is just that a frame which houses saw mill and rises and falls with one winch on side of frame can be used with hi. lo or lo. lo rails

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