Thread: Wood waste, Chainsaw Vs. Bandsaw mills.

Dennis,

I have Paulownias growing on my property and believed the hype about the efficiency of bandsaw mills and purchased one to mill my timber.
I was going to make this a detailed response but given my typing skills I don't have the time. I live in the northern rivers of NSW - 66792071 and would be happy to talk to you about Paulownia, Milling, etc. An evening call may be better as if I am out and about on the property I can't be contacted on the phone

Dennis will all of your tree's be slabbed or is there market for sawn timber also?

I researched a lot the pros and cons of band versus blade/chain before I bought my sawmill, I've been milling for 4 years and was preparing for 3 before that (when I first saw a Lucas I then spent all of my time and energy on finding out stuff, reading, learning, asking questions... you get the drift)

One thing I have always maintained, band saw gear requires experience and a lot of it to produce good, repeatable, dependable results. Gear like a Lucas can be turned on in the morning and can produce $'s by the afternoon, much less experience required - therefore much less of your tree's cut up into precision firewood, before you can sell your timber.

I feel this saving alone far outweighs any difference in recovery there will be due to kerf size.

Feel free to PM me regarding my experience with Lucas Mills, but be aware, I'm not a rep or have machines to sell, you need to talk to Lucas to do that, I'm just a very satisfied owner, who loves timber cutting. (just ask Weisyboy how long I chewed his ear off about Lucas mills

Originally Posted by Sigidi

Dennis will all of your tree's be slabbed or is there market for sawn timber also?

I researched a lot the pros and cons of band versus blade/chain before I bought my sawmill, I've been milling for 4 years and was preparing for 3 before that (when I first saw a Lucas I then spent all of my time and energy on finding out stuff, reading, learning, asking questions... you get the drift)

One thing I have always maintained, band saw gear requires experience and a lot of it to produce good, repeatable, dependable results. Gear like a Lucas can be turned on in the morning and can produce $'s by the afternoon, much less experience required - therefore much less of your tree's cut up into precision firewood, before you can sell your timber.

I feel this saving alone far outweighs any difference in recovery there will be due to kerf size.

Feel free to PM me regarding my experience with Lucas Mills, but be aware, I'm not a rep or have machines to sell, you need to talk to Lucas to do that, I'm just a very satisfied owner, who loves timber cutting. (just ask Weisyboy how long I chewed his ear off about Lucas mills

I owned a band saw mill for a few years and totally agree with Sigidi

If I was in the market to buy another mill it would be either a Lucas or a Peterson and definitely NOT a band saw.

Aaaah, Sigidy now we have more questions to answer. The (my) reason for cutting the timber into slabs was that it is easier to cut a wide board into 2 narrow boards than it is to make 2 narrow boards into one wide board. It is really a matter of having available what the customer wants, or at least being able to provide what they want in a very short time.
I had the feeling that a bandsaw mill would be a bit of a problem, even with a wide blade and plenty of space between the teeth. I already have a big old Sthil saw with a new bar and I had considered mounting that on something like a Logosol M7, basically so I don't have to bend my already buggered back too much.
The Lucas mill would be an ideal machine but the price is far more than the budget would stretch to and used mills are somewhat like rocking horse manure around here.
Thanks for the input, fellas. I will keep thinking on this and start looking for a reasonable solution.
Dennis.

Dennis a few fella's here and other places have banded around figures and it works out about 75 cubic metres of timber are needed to cover the cost of buying a mill for yourself versus getting someone in to mill it for you.

BUT the value of the sawn timber (you know) is quite different compared to the log, maybe get someone to mill enough to sell so you can buy a mill yourself. AS you mentioned second hand ones are rare, but they come up now and then, the resale market for Lucas mills is very quick, maybe you could buy one for resale down the track. You can almost guarantee a 80% resale price.

If you get someone in to mill, they will be able to slab and saw boards for you, so you can have some of both stockpiled. This would suit all markets. If you buy a chainsaw mill rig, it is much harder work than running a Lucas, for me there is only a very short part of the day which isn't standing upright.

How north are you In NSW? Maybe you can come and see the mill working sometime and look at slabs/boards etc. I'm happy to let you see what a Lucas does if you are in the area?

Originally Posted by Sigidi

This would suit all markets. If you buy a chainsaw mill rig, it is much harder work than running a Lucas, for me there is only a very short part of the day which isn't standing upright.

I won't dispute that a Lucas has to be much quicker and easier overall at making lumber but while I agree that a CS mill is harder I disagree that it has to be that much harder.

CS mill users can make things a lot easier by doing the following;
- Lift the log off the ground (no bending).
- Place the logs on a slope - mill goes down under it's own weight reduces need to push
- Reduce friction by using HDPE skids on the mill rails, use guiderails for every cut, put wheels on the mill to stop rubbing on the inboard bar clamp.

All these little things add up at the end of the day so the hardest part about using my mill is lifting it on and off the guide rails. When I go to the yard to mill, what tires me out more than anything out is moving slabs, not using the mill. If I can move the slabs with a sack trolley I choose to do so otherwise I would not be getting much exercise.

G'day Bob,

over time I've watched with interest your posts concerning your chainsaw slabbing.

Maybe I've been caught out talking about something I don't know anything about... Personally I haven't done any milling like you do, only with the Lucas and as you mentioned things which make milling easier like slabbing downhill, putting the log on an angle and milling with wheels all make things easier - which are things I already do with slabbing.

Definately the hardest part of slabbing is moving the slab after cutting it, then stacking it.

Maybe I need someone with a similar set-up to you (Carl?) to get together over a phat log and try it out for awhile to make sure I'm not talking too much crud about something I've never done...

Ordinarliy I dislike the kind of fella who comes off talking all the talk in the world, with no walking at all, so to all who have read it please accept my apologies for making comments regarding the type of chainsaw milling Bob and Weisy do, I just expected it would be much harder than using my Lucas - hopefully someone will allow me a bit of free experience so I can learn more??

Hey no need to apologise sigidi, I wasn't offended.

The thing is a lot of chainsaw mill suppliers don't do themselves any favours on this score.

Just looking at this picture from the Westford Mills website starts to give me a backache

A slightly better one from the Granberg site


Now this guy (Aggiewoodbutchr from Texas from the Arboriste site) knows what he's doing.

And here no one is pushing or touching Aggiewoodbutchr's mill at all!

Cheers

Hey Bob good pics, it explains a bit. Seeing pics like the first two makes you think it is just too DanG hard to think about doing.
Although I feel in the westford pic maybe the operator had something good to look at and that's why the log was so low mind you on a serious note it looks like the log is loaded into a Lucas??? and the lass is cutting it with her 3120???
Bob when slabbing do you find the sawdust to be much more powdery that your normal corsscut? at times when slabbing I've looked at the sawdust and thought if I was crosscutting I'd be sharpening now because of how fine the dust is, but the cutting rate is still pretty good, so I've become accustomed to a 'finer' sawdust while slabbing. I certainly never get long shavings like ripping a slit post.

Oh also couldn't see wood butchers pics, might be my end or the arbor site end? can everybody else see them?

OK - I fixed the pics. I'm sure Aggie wouldn't mind me posting them here. He's a terrific guy, very helpful and I have had lots of advice from him about CS mills and if anyone is the grandfather of the BIL mill then he is it.

Originally Posted by Sigidi

Bob when slabbing do you find the sawdust to be much more powdery that your normal corsscut? at times when slabbing I've looked at the sawdust and thought if I was crosscutting I'd be sharpening now because of how fine the dust is, but the cutting rate is still pretty good, so I've become accustomed to a 'finer' sawdust while slabbing. I certainly never get long shavings like ripping a slit post.

Yep - I agree - it is a bit finer.
When cross cutting the side of the tooth is cutting directly across the grain (fine dust like a hand saw) while the top of the tooth acts like a chisel cutting parallel to the grain which is what makes the bigger chips. As there is more top cutting than side there are more bigger chips.
When slabbing, the top of the teeth make the cross grain cut and the sides of the teeth makes the parallel cut. This is why there is more fine dust and less chips.
When ripping a fence post the teeth are running down the grain like a hand plane making the curlies.

i find the sawdust is an indicator of chain condition. When the fine dust to chip ratio for a given log increases that is often a good indicator the rakers need touching up.

Right, I am convinced. No band saw mill for me. Now comes the dificult part. If I want to get wide boards out of a, say 900mm diam tree, I am going to need something other than a circular saw, be it Lucas, Petersen or whoever. With a chainsaw mill, how level is the cut? In other words, does the bar tend to wander so that youe 38mm board is 32mm in one place and 45mm somewhere else?
I must say that the discussion is getting very interesting and I really must thank you all for your comments so far.
dennis.

have used a home made slabber frame for 9 years since i sold my lucas saw .didnt have enough timber to mill . then bought this little ripper bandsaw mill 5hp 17inch cut , did a magic job on silky oak logs ,but i did a lot of research in to running it properly . many say these are a waste of space , but i got good results with no blade wander . saved truck loads of sawdust .and stacked timber instead . then got a chance to get my lucas saw back , needs a few repairs. but for general milling i think its possibly the best solution for general use , as you can cut boards and slab with it as well. i feel chainsaw slabbing has its place. but if you have logs its nice to lean against the lucas and see whats happening without your nose back and ears crying for mercy. cutting is adictive ,you never know whats there till you cut it , especially metal rocks etc .having both is great if you can get some cedar .. happy cutting bob

Originally Posted by DennisDaMenace

Right, I am convinced. No band saw mill for me. Now comes the dificult part. If I want to get wide boards out of a, say 900mm diam tree, I am going to need something other than a circular saw, be it Lucas, Petersen or whoever. With a chainsaw mill, how level is the cut? In other words, does the bar tend to wander so that youe 38mm board is 32mm in one place and 45mm somewhere else?
I must say that the discussion is getting very interesting and I really must thank you all for your comments so far.
dennis.

The Lucas slabber cuts dead accurate if you do a couple of simple things. First, make sure the end frames are supported on the ends, directly under the uprights and there is no high spot under the centre of the crossbar somewhere. Second, take the time to get your rails as parallel as possible and third, make sure that when you winch down to set your thickness, you push down on the ends of the rails at the finishing end of the log.

Of course, the obvious things like properly chocking the log to prevent it rolling or otherwise moving need to be done as well.

re: wood waste, chainsaw vs bandsaw mill.

chaninsaw mills may remove more timber wile cutting but unless the band on the bandsaw is kept dead sharp and tight it will wander and lots has to be removed in the dressing process.

as for the amount of work it is and bending. if you are milling in a set position all the time then you can construct a platfom and ramps to get the logs up at waste height. and if your chain is sharp then the saw should pull itself threw the log with no pushing.

if you are mobile milling as i do i make the first cut with the ladder then sit on the log infront of the saw and pull it along no bending and i sit down all day.

there are many types of chainsaw mills. i looked at many types of mills when i was purchasing mine.

(horasontal)

the alaskan style mill (what most of us have) sits ontop of the log with the saw in a horasontal plane held at teh required height by a set of rails.

then there is a fixed place mill where the saw is clamped in a frame that runs along a set of rails similar to the lucas.

(vertical)

then there is the rail type mills like the wetsrail that are attached to a steel rail and the saw is pulled by a winch or pulled by hand.

then there are the other rail mills like the bigmill where the saw is clamped to a gizmo and that is run along a board clamped the the log.

thee is pros and cons with each but in the vertical model there is nothing or verry little stoping the saw twisting sideways and the saw can tilt up and down producing ruged slabs similar to hand sawn. where as with the horasontal ones the saw is searcuarly clamped to the bar and the only wat the slab can become uneven is if the rails lift off teh log or the log moves.

SIGIDI: maby we should arange a miling day we'd have plenty of forum members wiling to come along. im sure i could russel up some nice logs for us to use