Thread: Brisbane 2016 ShowThread

Thanks Ian
Good to meet you Paul and the rest had a good time and the pencil gauge big bonus 😀, your wood screw demo's were certainly a big hit and pulled alot of people to the stand. Agree about all rhats been said about the size of the show it has definitely shrunk in content the past few years

I really enjoyed helping out today on the stand; I arrived not long after opening and stayed all day. Probably the best part for me was simply to meet fellow members and put some actual faces to familiar names.

The idea of having tools on the table as a draw certainly worked well; people would pause and look; and were usually fairly surprised to be told that handling them was positively encouraged despite them not being for sale.

I've only ever managed two other shows; Melbourne in 2003 and Perth in 2009. This show was definitely way smaller than either of those; however I still enjoyed it. Being rather limited on baggage allowance I only expected to make a few small purchases; but I did give way to temptation and finally picked up the Oz-Vice I've been fascinated by for the last decade or so. Despite the small size there was sufficient there to keep me interested and if I'm in a capital city again when the show comes around I'll go again.

A great big thank you to IanW for organising the stand at such short notice and for getting it all to come together so well so well.

Thank you also to all the members who took a turn on the Forum stand.

WELL DONE EVERYONE!

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Neil

Myself and Mrs. Budgie went on the Saturday. We last went a couple of years ago, and so I really noticed the difference as others have noted. Far fewer exhibitors, especially the smaller outfits, and the adjoining smaller hall was practically empty apart from a wood seller and demo stand whereas when we went previously it was also full of exhibitors. I noticed that the exhibitors in the main hall are more spread out to make it look fuller, which is good because there is more space between them, however the numbers of people there were way down on when we had gone previously as well. The Timbecon stand was good, and thanks to Greg Miller there for an interesting chat about spoon carving.
There did seem to be however more (and cheaper) wood sellers, with the exception of the outside yard which was pretty desolate. I was really surprised when some wood sellers started marking down their timber already on Saturday afternoon. I would have thought this would happen on Sunday.

That said, we spent nearly five hours on Saturday and came away with some arbortech tools, a diamond file set, magazines and a bunch of cheap woods from bargain bins. Although it was 'underwhelming' as others said, we still enjoyed ourselves and would go again. It does seem to me however that there is less and less difference between the Maleny wood show and the Brisbane one in terms of what you can see and get. Maleny is a much better day out in a nicer location, with infinitely better food options (the Brisbane show food is terrible). The wood at Maleny is slightly cheaper than Brisbane, however there are less 'trade' exhibitors and so less tools on display. It would be interesting to find out whether SEQ forum members prefer the Brisbane show or the Maleny one......

Well done guys on uploading photos and being part of the wood working show and forum stand.

Originally Posted by RoyG

Woodworking in America (WIA) has now been running for five years (I think), and offers a format that I believe has application to the TWWW Show. I had the opportunity to attend Woodworking in America a few years ago. WIA has so far been held once per year, in a different location each year. Although, from mutterings in the US woodworking press, it appears that multiple locations each year are in the plans.

WIA takes the form of a Conference focused on woodworking, with a wide range of topics covered by; seminar sessions, demonstrations, training classes, lectures, discussion panels, etc. There is a Woodworking trade show located in an adjacent hall, but the trade show is open only between conference sessions, so as to not conflict with conference activities. Most of the trade exhibitors also sponsor one or more activities within the Conference, but without that sponsorship detracting from the educational aspect of the conference activity.

On the second day that I attended that year's WIA, I joined a 2 hour hands-on training course where the Instructor's goal was to have each participant master the production of a hand cut dovetail joint in 2 hours. It was fun, and I did manage at first attempt to produce a well cut neat fitting dovetail joint in 2 hours, and was able to take those skills away and still use them regularly - and my Leigh Jig has gathered dust ever since.

How many people who have attended a TWWW Show have gone back for a second day at that year's TWWWS because what was on offer at the show was so extensive and so good, and worth seeing again, that more than one day was required to be able to absorb all of what was on offer ?

In my mind, it's time for the Timber & Working With Wood Show to re-invent itself.

I have only heard about WIA through other podcasts and the internet. From the sounds of it, I would LOVE TO GO!!! It is a totally different show, the quality of the 'classes' (as opposed to demos) would be awesome. If I can ever plan a US trip around it I'd be there in a heartbeat. But, I just don't think we'd get the numbers in Australia to make it viable.

What we need is some sort of a middle ground between what we have today and WIA. To me, the show first 'died' when the demos became wood turning focused. Flame me - but seen one seen 'em all. I loved the classic & entertaining demonstrations by Richard Vaughan, Neil Scobie made a very brief appearance, and the like. Gifkins jig is not a demo like they spruik it as now - you could have seen this any other year at the show - its a sales pitch, and I don't mean that negatively. I once caught a finishing demo by U-Beaut, that was fantastic and I learnt a lot.

Looking at and comparing products - I can do that on Google or this forum. Eating a crap $9 sandwich - I could do that at home.

What I can't do at home is sit in front of a master and listen, and learn, and ask questions and get a reply straight from the horses mouth. I subscribe to dozens of woodworking channels on YouTube, but I'd pay good money (a lot more than $15) to see and learn from them in person. That's where the show can differentiate itself from the internet and other disruptive threats. Could we travel down a path similar to WIA and have the existing 'trade hall' and the existing basic demos, plus a more in-depth 'educational class' hall with a higher admission price?

Yes, I'll go to the Sydney show. I know I'll only be there for 90 mins (max) and not spend anywhere near as much as I did 8 years ago. I've got to support it like lots of people tell us to, but what will it achieve?

To use as an indicator for the Sydney and Melbourne shows, was there any really good specials in the power tools/machinery area?

I wanna Shed, I think you are groping towards an idea that could be a game changer and produce a 'show' that appeals to the sector who have become jaded with the show as it is. However, it would take someone with the guts, experience & resources to organise it!

There are some conflicting forces at play with the TWWWS as it exists at present. You heard from a source very close to one of the wood vendors that he did very well out of the show & is well satisfied. Just before we packed up, I was chatting with a senior person from one of the large retailers, & he was also satisfied with their sales for the weekend. I was quite surprised to learn what proportion of their firm's income is derived from the 'show circuit' - it's not chicken-feed! One may assume this is the case with the other retailers who are still attending the show, so there is little or no incentive from that quarter to agitate for change. Therefore, as Holmes might have said, it's elementary, my dear Watson, that things will continue to continue in their present form until either the attendance drops below a level that gives them a worthwhile return, or the current management become convinced that they can boost attendance by taking a few risks and creating a different show (they could also do with a course on how to treat people a little more politely, I reckon!).

I don't think there's much to be gained by comparing the TWWWS with Maleny, it's apples vs. oranges. You could attend & enjoy both. Given the facilities they have, I don't think Maleny could do what they do now & cope with half the vendors who attend the TWWWS. It's a great show, but it has a very different ethic, & personally, I wouldn't like to see that change to much.

In my former life, I was involved in organising conferences that included trade displays. It's not all beer & skittles; you want the trade displays to help defray the costs, but it's a balancing act. These people, are there for a purpose, quite obviously, and demand things like protected booth space, which ain't cheap, and minimal attendance numbers, to provide which, you have to work very hard.

If I were the entrepreneurial type, I'd just start my own show along the lines of what you suggest. Do some market research to find out what woodies most want, then get a bunch of good instructors together, find a few people who can give a stimulating talk or two, and run it over several days. There could be 'open' sessions and sessions that you pay a bit extra for, in order to get more personalised coaching. If you got a good programme together well ahead of the lead-time companies need to organise themselves, and could convince them of the prospect of a good attendance, you could possibly have the best of all possible worlds - lots to see & do & lots to buy. But I know what venues cost, these days, and unless well-organised & well-resourced, you could easily lose a shirt or two.

So, any takers?.....

Originally Posted by IanW

I wanna Shed, I think you are groping towards an idea that could be a game changer and produce a 'show' that appeals to the sector who have become jaded with the show as it is. However, it would take someone with the guts, experience & resources to organise it!

If I were the entrepreneurial type, I'd just start my own show along the lines of what you suggest. Do some market research to find out what woodies most want, then get a bunch of good instructors together, find a few people who can give a stimulating talk or two, and run it over several days. There could be 'open' sessions and sessions that you pay a bit extra for, in order to get more personalised coaching. If you got a good programme together well ahead of the lead-time companies need to organise themselves, and could convince them of the prospect of a good attendance, you could possibly have the best of all possible worlds - lots to see & do & lots to buy. But I know what venues cost, these days, and unless well-organised & well-resourced, you could easily lose a shirt or two.

So, any takers?.....

NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

Ohhhhh imagine that! Where do I lay down a greenie for an every day pass?

(This is the first time in a long while I've been excited about a wood show thread!).

I've been going to TWWW shows for a very long time, but after the 2013 show in Brisbane decided it had deteriorated to the point that it was not worth the 2 hour drive each way. But I'm an optimist and wanted to source some new timber and hopefully a couple of specific tools, so I drove up on Friday. Sadly it was a total waste of time: mostly the usual suspects (Carbatec, Gregory machinery, Timbecon, Gifkins, the poor bugger still trying to sell that Zyliss vice, and acres of McJing's cheap copies) enriched by a few favourites (Jim Davey's sharpening wizardry, the guys from Henry Eckert) and the local clubs with their wares for sale. I was chatting over lunch (pricey and VERY ordinary] to a couple of guys who had driven down from Gympie way - they were very disappointed and also empty handed, and speculated that high stall charges was driving way suppliers/exhibitioners. Later i was chatting to a timber supplier, who also lamented that high costs and low margins meant this would be his last trip to Brisbane - just not worth the hassle. When I left him about 3pm he had begun discounting his timber stock because he feared he would still have a pile unsold by Sunday closing.

So what to do? I have to agree with RoyG about the need to modernise/revitalise this event. One key question is whether the event is still working as mostly a shopping exercise? Hard to judge, but I did see lots of blokes carrying stuff. Even so, I'd like to see a stronger focus on learning and doing, and to that end the WIA format is attractive, and I think the producers of Fine Woodworking magazine do something similar. I'm not sure if a Conference-style event (with more information, lectures, demos, classes) would work in the current TWWW capital city circuit - probably just too complex to manage. But, like WIA, a new location each year would likely be viable. But its a different beast entirely and need not replace TWWW.

Those with influence with TWWW Show organisers might encourage them to do some decent market research on what people want at these events, and whether the current program is providing it. I also imagine the many woodworking clubs and men's sheds would have useful views. I'm sufficiently attracted to an annual multi-day Conference-style workworking event to travel to a different city each year or 2, so long as the program was informative, interesting and had a good mix of demonstrations (not just product sales please) and hands-on elements (like RoyGs 2 hr dovetail class experience). These days I'm keen on learning more, and I'm always encouraged by the number of woodworking schools and specialist classes emerging around the country - those experienced/knowledgeable teachers are another valuable resource that could be better included in a redesigned event.
Cheers
CharlieZ

I had 25 years of involvement as a exhibitor and demonstrator at the T&WWWShows and following are my thoughts on the some of the proposals.

Hate to burst any bubbles here but the things people have mentioned here are events with registration/entry fees in the vicinity of $400-$500+ to attend for the entire thing or around $200+ per day and they are more concentrated on Turning and Carving.

People whine about the price of entry to the T&WWWShow yet there would be 50 times more people visit the T&WWWShow than the seminars. You can't compare USA shows and seminars to T&WWWShow they are even more apples and oranges then comparing Maleny and T&WWWShow. Our most populated state NSW has less people living in it than New York and the entire US population is around 14 times more than Australia. Just those numbers alone should tell you the results of comparisons.

To top it off there were a number of woodworking shows cancelled in the US in the last few years. At least ours is still going and trying.

If you can manage to put on a world class show, with the best world class woodworkers, paid world class rates, accommodated, transported, fed, etc. Then supply a venue(s) big enough to house maybe 20 separate pre-booked ongoing activities and include a trade show along with it and saturation advertising campaign, etc. Then you might have something. But the $160,000 (very conservative estimate) it would cost to put on would mean getting maybe 10,000 people through the door at $16 a head to cover the costs before the organiser ever saw a cent.

Other option to pay for a 3 day event: 275 people at $200 per day pre-booked, prepaid and non refundable fees to cover costs and make it almost nowhere near worthwhile for the organisers.

Any takers at those prices. Probably not many who would want to spend $600 for 3 days, maybe a few more would do 1 or 2 days for $200 or $400. I'm sure I wouldn't want to be running that show here on Oz. I'd have a go at it in the US.

You may think I'm talking rot and know nothing but I have organised and run very successful events in the past, the Woodworkers Swap Meets for one, with over 5000 people coming to the middle of nowhere for a one day, gold coin donation event. The Woodworkers Swap Meets ran very successfully for 6 years also a couple of major Woodwork Exhibitions/Sales events in Castlemaine and involvement in a few others.

I agree the T&WWWShows needs some sort of a face lift. At a bare minimum a change of dates for Melbourne and Brisbane to get Bris away from the Maleny event and Melb away from Down Under Turnaround which is on the same weekend and has been running now for 20 years. No idea what the other changes could be for the better but I doubt running seminar type additions or a full seminar event is the answer. Nor do I believe the way it would have to be run or funded would be practical for the current shows or the organizers to run here in Australia.

Cheers - Neil

Hi Ubeaut, Thanks for starting this thread. I had wondered how it went. This was the first year I haven't gone to the Brisbane TWWW show in about the last 8 years. That was predominantly because of my experience from 2015's show. Last year I had the Friday off, so drove in. Discovered that the car parks at the RNA were all full, wasn't keen on the $35+ to park in a commercial carpark so spent half an hour driving around the streets looking for somewhere to park. I was super-lucky to find a street park, but had a half hour walk to and from the car to the show. Lugging that piece of hairy oak back almost killed me. When I finally got into the show, I was in a somewhat unimpressed mood, and then that wasn't helped by the smaller size of the show. So this year, I decided to give it a miss. I ummed and ahhed over the decision a few times, but honestly, if McJings had been at Maleny, I wouldn't have even thought twice about not going.

The bottom line is that the RNA is just too inconvenient and expensive. I believe they need to find a new venue that charges a lot less, so they can pass on the savings to the retailers and get the stall numbers up again. I would be happy to travel to the north side, to Logan or to the Gold Coast, no problems.

I popped in on Friday - basically to check out the timber vendors. Was working the rest of the day so I basically ducked in and out very rapidly, didn't even spot the forum stand (where was it?)! I bought more timber than I expected to, despite stocking up at Maleny as well! That was thanks to Boutique and All Class Timber, who bought along some different stock to what was at Maleny.

Overall, I was interested about how much of the floor was taken up by the big vendors - combined, Gregory's (who seemed to be running some decent specials from what I saw on my way past), carbatec, and timbecon would have been close to half the floor. Was happy to see that the guys at the Gifkins stand seemed to be pulling good crowds for their demos!

I second what other people have said already - I definitely preferred the vibe at Maleny, for want of a better term, and Maleny having good food and free parking is a big, big plus. I agree the TWWS needs to find a new venue and then reduce prices to vendors - I'm a bit puzzled about why it's at the RNA, there can't be that many people getting there by public transport and then lugging any purchases around on multiple buses/trains/walking to get home. If they could add some tutorial/seminar/workshop type extras I would be keen.

I guess Neil has expanded & put a dollar value on what I was trying to say.

Neil, registration fees of $4-500 for a 3 plus day conference or seminar style show would be on the cheap side, these days! I reckon you'd need a volunteer organising committee, an inexpensive venue, and and a couple of well-known 'names' as attractions. In a place like Brisbane, you might pull an attendance in the 1500 or more range, but it would take a lot of work publicising & selling it. I doubt that sort of show would be profitable in a commercial sense, you'd be aiming to cover costs. Retailers might not be attracted to those sorts of numbers.

Perhaps it only needs a few tweaks to improve visitor satisfaction & reduce the impression that the show is just a bit of concentrated retail therapy, particularly when you can visit them all in person or online any day of the week. I've been to the show most years since it started here, and there have certainly been a few changes over the 20-odd years it's been running. The most lamentable change in my view is that there is very little happening now, other than retailing, and a good deal less of that, to boot. Once you could compare prices & abilities of 4 or 5 examples of whatever woodworking machine you were thinking of buying, now you'd be lucky to find more than one.

When the show first kicked off, there were all sorts of demonstrations, clubs exhibiting work & techniques, Frank Weisner making some fancy bit of furniture and so on. Your would-be woody was far more likely to get inspired and go buy some tools to make the retailers happy. So I can't see why it isn't a major aim of the organisers to try & provide that sort of atmosphere.

Another change is that the advent of the interweb and more woodworking magazines than you can poke a stick at has taken the novelty out of lots of things, so you do need to work a bit harder to do something that will attract the passers-by. But we do like to see how something is done, & making a bit of sawdust fly is guaranteed to make people stop & look, at least. There are lots of wanna-be cabinet makers and turners who would enjoy & learn from demonstrations of techniques from the most basic to the more sophisticated. And I wouldn't knock turners, there aren't that many woodworking processes where you can go from a lump of wood to a satisfying finished article in a few minutes & it's still interesting to many. I would advocate a bit more spindle-turning, though, these blokes get a bit hooked on their bowls, and seem to forget that making furniture parts is a far more practical use of the machine...

Just having one or two 'unusual' exhibits can be a big plus. I had several blokes tell me it was worth coming to the show to see the tapping/threading demo. One bloke in particular was over the moon - he had been wanting to make himself some big bench screws for years, but wasn't quite sure how to go about it. After seeing how simple it can be, he was rushing off home to get started. Those are the sort of show visitors you want!

So my vote for the first try at re-vitalising the show goes to getting more action going. It surely can't be too hard in a city of this size to find a few competent people who would be willing to mount some decent demonstrations; run a few fun events like the '5-minute dovetail' competition they had in Perth a few years ago, and so on. These are a couple of ideas off the top of my head - I'm sure there would be many more. It would add very little to the cost of running the show and could send many more visitors home feeling they'd had their money's worth.

Cheers,