Yet another Black Dog thread

[in2deep]

“If you know someone who’s depressed, please resolve never to ask them why. Depression isn’t a straightforward response to a bad situation; depression just is, like the weather.

Try to understand the blackness, lethargy, hopelessness, and loneliness they’re going through. Be there for them when they come through the other side. It’s hard to be a friend to someone who’s depressed, but it is one of the kindest, noblest, and best things you will ever do.”
― Stephen Fry

This quote was sent to me by a good friend who knows what I'm going through.
My adult (36 y/o) son suffers from depression and substance abuse and I've never been able to connect with him until I read this quote. It was the last sentence that impacted on me the most: I've been acting like an angry parent and not as a friend. Last night I sat down with him and calmly discussed with him the impact his depression is having on the rest of the family. I told him that I wake up in the middle of the night and worry that he's slowly dying (he stays in his room 24/7), I asked him if he would seek help, and to my surprise he agreed. He has an appointment with a mental health clinician tomorrow afternoon.
I only hope that he follows through with any action/plan the clinician comes up with, but at least he's made a step in the right direction.

Thanks for listening.

[Simplicity]

In2deep
Just a suggestion but you might or already have found some support for your self .
This can be of great help
I was once involved with someone who's sister was servilely mental ill
With out a support group it could I've been hell.
Even just chatting with someone in the same situation was so calming
Matt

[RedShirtGuy]

Good on ya dad Really.

You're right, it IS hard to understand as an outsider. That's why I bought my parents a simple little book about living with the black dog a good number of years ago when I was utterly, completely, unconsolably depressed...to help them understand what I couldn't say. I remember crying uncontrollably as I made the order and hoping like all get out that it would help...and it did.

8ish years on, we've been through some serious downs (as well as a few ups), but at least they understand why I can barely talk to them still.

The "condition" is natural but varies between people, so I hope your fella, with your support, will find the help he needs. The answer isn't purely medication...it takes a lot of other things as well...but the meds really do help (and I know a few people who refuse to take the meds thinking that they can sort themselves out but they are only fooling themselves (in their cases) )

I'm a long term sufferer, and will be medicated for the rest of my life because it's simply a matter of my brain not generating enough of the "happy" chemicals...even since I was a little tacker...but I've also made some deep and serious changes to my life and the way I interact with people. I've been able to help a number of other people because of my experience (sufferers and supporters) so if you ever have the need...please feel free to drop me a PM and we can chat

[in2deep]

In2deep
Just a suggestion but you might or already have found some support for your self .
This can be of great help
I was once involved with someone who's sister was servilely mental ill
With out a support group it could I've been hell.
Even just chatting with someone in the same situation was so calming
Matt

Thanks Matt, both my wife and I attend a support group for people that have loved ones with substance abuse issues. It can be quite an eye opener sometimes as to the effects it has on family members.

Good on ya dad Really.

You're right, it IS hard to understand as an outsider. That's why I bought my parents a simple little book about living with the black dog a good number of years ago when I was utterly, completely, unconsolably depressed...to help them understand what I couldn't say. I remember crying uncontrollably as I made the order and hoping like all get out that it would help...and it did.

8ish years on, we've been through some serious downs (as well as a few ups), but at least they understand why I can barely talk to them still.

The "condition" is natural but varies between people, so I hope your fella, with your support, will find the help he needs. The answer isn't purely medication...it takes a lot of other things as well...but the meds really do help (and I know a few people who refuse to take the meds thinking that they can sort themselves out but they are only fooling themselves (in their cases) )

I'm a long term sufferer, and will be medicated for the rest of my life because it's simply a matter of my brain not generating enough of the "happy" chemicals...even since I was a little tacker...but I've also made some deep and serious changes to my life and the way I interact with people. I've been able to help a number of other people because of my experience (sufferers and supporters) so if you ever have the need...please feel free to drop me a PM and we can chat

Thanks RSG, if this is the book you mentioned, I've managed to track it down at the local library. I've also reserved the companion book I Had A Black Dog: His Name Was Depression. I may take you up on the offer of a PM.

[Simplicity]

In2deep
Great to hear that you both have a support group
Also I've met RSG top bloke

[RedShirtGuy]

Thanks RSG, if this is the book you mentioned, I've managed to track it down at the local library. I've also reserved the companion book I Had A Black Dog: His Name Was Depression. I may take you up on the offer of a PM.

Yep...that's the book. Nice and simple and tells a complex message well. I haven't seen the companion book though.

It's fantastic that both you and the wife go to a support group. I've been through some level of substance abuse in the past (a couple of times) as well and it wasn't until I got myself together that I realised just how damaging it is for those around you.

It can be a long, slow, painful road to walk with someone...but there can also be some incredibly great moments of lucidity and personal development...even tiny little things can shine pretty brightly.

Hey, anytime you want an extra ear, shoulder, bad joke or a little experience from both sides...send those PMs. Sometimes it's even easier talking to a 'stranger'

Also I've met RSG top bloke

Your cheque is in the mail

[Simplicity]

I take tools in exchange lol

[in2deep]

"say what you mean, mean what you say, don't be mean"
- Steven (our counselor)

Some good words of advice.

I'm having difficulty separating my sons substance abuse issues with his depression issues. If his lethargy is due to substance abuse then he needs a kick up the backside, if however, it's part of his depression the kick up the backside is the worst thing I could do.

Having difficulty expressing myself today.

[artme]

As a long term sufferer I know there is a lot of sense in Stephen Fry's words.

One of the fallacies about depression is that you can "just snap out of it".

This is one of the worst peices of advice that can be given. It simply doesn't work that way and may even make things worse.

Correct diagnosis, medication and counseling are the treatments along with even greater patience from the family.

I hope your son can work his way through his problems and that you and your wife will find the patience and wisdom to give him all the help you can.

[shedman]

"say what you mean, mean what you say, don't be mean"
- Steven (our counselor)

Some good words of advice.

I'm having difficulty separating my sons substance abuse issues with his depression issues. If his lethargy is due to substance abuse then he needs a kick up the backside, if however, it's part of his depression the kick up the backside is the worst thing I could do.

Having difficulty expressing myself today.

As a barrister I have represented many who have either been charged because of substance abuse or been charged with other crimes that occurred as a result of being a substance abuser. I too used to think that they deserved a good kick up the but. Now I understand more. If you had found them considering their very first use then yes kick them into next week. Remember however that some drugs only need a very little exposure for you to become clinically dependent. Often people think they aree using one drug when in fact it has been doctored or cut with other substances. Sadly the drug dealers want dependent customers and they want them to become dependent quickly.

I would resist the temptation to plant your foot until or unless they do not try to get help.

[RedShirtGuy]

"just snap out of it"

Would you believe that I once had Ballarat's highest recommended psych say almost exactly that to me?

I was telling him how absorbed I was getting in some Harry Potter books and was having extremely deep and uncontrollable feelings towards a character's personality and plights that it was affecting my real life and that I was having trouble not talking out loud to the character in long winded fits of rage or disappointment. The fiction had become real.

The shrink's words still ring in my head...."just get over it".

"Don't you think that if I could, I wouldn't be here begging for your help?!?!?!"

In the end he told me (and I *still* can't !$#%! believe this) that I was TOO much EFFORT for him.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thankfully I found someone who actually gave a crap and really helped me even if sometimes I cried uncontrollably for an entire session. He stood by me like a true professional and pulled me out of my hole.


As for the substance abuse...and I can only talk from my experience...I was using them in a self medicating way to try and make life more tolerable without admitting there were problems. Whether I was more lethargic or "mentally absent" before or after...I can't recall. I never went harder than simple alcohol, nicotine and weed (in 5 acre allotments daily) but know that I was bordering on wanting more "unnatural" concoctions because the pain wasn't going away.

All of the professional medicos that asked me when I started smoking had been surprised that I was so "old" (30ish) with no prior history other than a few big nights out at the pub with mates.

Depression begets substances and substances beget depression...it is quite circular and it can be extremely easy to keeping riding the downward slope before you truly realise and admit to yourself that you need better/proper help.

[in2deep]

At the suggestion of our counselor my wife and I went to an AlAnon meeting last week and came away feeling good in the fact that we have done everything we possible can for our son. The rest is up to him. There are plenty of resources available to him, it is up to him now to help himself. This does not mean we don't care about him, we just don't beat ourselves up about him not getting help any more.
I have been felling pretty good lately myself with this burden off my shoulders until yesterday morning with the news of Robbin Williams suicide, I had a bit of a cry last night.

[chambezio]

I am always amased at just how many sufferers are on this Forum. The "official figures" are too low to what the reality is (this is just my thoughts). In my struggle (now at least 24 years) this Forum has been such a great comfort in my "down times". I agree that to talk to someone who "knows" what its like is very helpful but there are times when you don't want/can't talk it out. Its so easy, when you are down, for the brain to tell you that you are alone and nobody cares. This is when its dangerous (I reckon) and when you need help.
It is so sad about Robyn Williams!! We have lost a great talent. Maybe though, his passing may alert more people to the awareness of what depression can lead to.

[Chris Parks]

I don't suffer from depression but have had some pretty low times during my years on this earth. What I find a lot is when the subject comes up it is frequently associated with money by those who know nothing. I have a very close friend, in fact he is a really clever hands on man and he is fairly wealthy by way of a lottery win and some reluctance to spend what he had before the win. When people become aware of his battle with depression the first thing they say is that he should not have any troubles because he is fortunate enough to have money and is set for life. They do not understand what drives depression is not lack of material things but a deficiency somewhere in the mind and no I don't no exactly what causes it, does anyone?

[SiJ]

Yeah Chris, interesting point. Common that people worry about money, then assume that depression is just severe worry - therefore having money alleviates the issue. But worry, insecurity and depression are all very different...