Thread: Diabetes

Go back to the Dr.s and get him to refer you to a diabetic educator. There will be one at your closest hospital. You need information. I have been a diabetic for 40 years. It's not that hard to manage.

I've had it since 2011. Yes it was a shock and find the medications very effective but I could not continue with my diet/lifestyle otherwise the doc said I would need to take more and more meds until I would have to go on insulin.

My doctor sent me to a 1/2 day a week for 6 weeks workshop/classes on diabetes and overall I found this worthwhile although I subsequently found out that the presentation by the dietician was out of date and my kidney specialist reckons dieticians are miles behind proper diets for type II diabetes. Most GPs are also not up with proper diets either and just prescribe you with more pills. Still recommend the classes if you can get to them.

If you are really determine you can cure yourself of typeII diabetes by stringently following a low carbohydrate diet and intermittent fasting.
Something like Dr Mosley's 5:2 diet but there are more rigorous regimes around.

Originally Posted by BobL

IIf you are really determine you can cure yourself of typeII diabetes by stringently following a low carbohydrate diet and intermittent fasting.
Something like Dr Mosley's 5:2 diet but there are more rigorous regimes around.

Yes I was going to mention I have two ex-colleagues who managed it really well with low carb - high fat diets. I was surprised to hear it because it's actually my favourite diet (for weight loss - not diabetes). My colleagues said some doctors were supportive of it, others not so much.

KB I'm not a doctor and I don't have diabetes (that I know of), but if your doctor recommends such a diet I have done it for a few months and it was excellent. The foods were brilliant, I was never hungry, energy levels were higher than ever and I generally felt excellent. There was a catch though, and that is that it's really hard to eat out or get take away. All that stuff is mainly carbs, which makes sense because carbs are cheap. That was my downfall in the end, I eat out a lot and at some point I got tired of going past everything and ending up every time and at the one place where I could find chicken skewers and veggies. But while it lasted it was great, and now I'm trying to finetune my lifestyle to make time for shopping specific groceries and cooking so I can start it again.

Originally Posted by Spyro

There was a catch though, and that is that it's really hard to eat out or get take away. All that stuff is mainly carbs, which makes sense because carbs are cheap. That was my downfall in the end, I eat out a lot and at some point I got tired of going past everything and ending up every time and at the one place where I could find chicken skewers and veggies. But while it lasted it was great, and now I'm trying to finetune my lifestyle to make time for shopping specific groceries and cooking so I can start it again.

I have for the last 12 weeks been on a two meals a day for 2 weeks and then 1 meal a day for two weeks plus what I eat at home is low carb - high fat.
My aim was to gain control over my sugar levels which had been getting higher due to my other medical conditions.
Fasting is a really good way to bring down your resting sugar levels so you body gets used to this - it's like exercise for your glucose control system.

The starting key to taking control is to eat as much unprocessed low sugar food as you can so as little as possible that comes out of a can, packet or a bottle.
Minimise sugar/carbs so no alcohol, fruit juice, soft drinks, sugar, pasta, rice, white root vegetables, bread, biscuits or cereals.
It's not hard to find replacements for some things, eg finely chopped raw or par cooked cauliflower can replace rice
I used to eat >5 pieces of sweet fruits a day now I have 1 or 2, and now it's usually strawberries or other berries (with cream!), sometimes an apple or orange and it's usually my desert.
Still eat a fair bit of diary like cheeses and unsweetened yoghurt, cream! instead of milk in coffee.
Eat as much fat as you like, but no oil from seeds, instead use olive, butter, coconut and animal fats.
We eat as much unprocessed vegetables and protein as we can.
We don't eat out much, still have takeaway, Asian or Indian about once every other week, and if attending a party or social event I more or less eat what I like on these occasions just try not to pig out on multiple helpings and take small serves of the carbs. When I do this it's my only meal of the day. I thought I would really pig out on the only one meal a day days but after a while you get used to it and its not that hard.

I agree shopping right is useful - if there is crap in the house I will find it and eat it!

The result? halved my diabetes meds, lost 14kg, dropped my average diastolic BP reading by 8 points and my systolic by 2 points, and normalised my cholesterol.
I have a bunch of other health issues but my diabetes is probably the least of my health worries.

But don't take my word for it find a diabetes educator who is up with the latest and is prepare to help you cure yourself.
Everyone else is just about selling drugs and keeping you coming back for the fees.

It was 3 years ago now but all I can remember was the countless times I had bacon or sausage and eggs and frozen berries with cream, both pretty much my favourite dishes, and losing weight because of it! Also lots of stir fry (yum) and huge beautiful salads with greens drenched in my secret sauce of olive oil, parmezan, avocado and walnuts. And when I had those cravings for pasta I found those japanese noodles that are actually made of.... some plant I can't remember, but they were almost translucent and tasted like normal noodles. And occasionally some dried peaches and cantaloupe which are the lowest carb fruits I think. It was a fkn feast, day in day out, and my blood tests and blood pressure looked better than ever.

What happened for me was that at first I was gorging on those scrambled eggs, bacon and steaks like a pig. But after a while, all that fibre and protein simply stayed in my system for longer compared to carbs, and eating huge quantities of fibres started to feel like a brick in my stomach. And so my sense of hunger began to change. Instead of having those massive cravings I have when I eat carbs, which is really not real hunger but just my blood sugar levels spiking because of the carbs converting to sugar and then dropping like a brick a few hours later giving me that sense of "God I have to eat or I'm gonna faint", I started having that very very gradually growing mild hunger, which I could basically nurture a whole 24 hours if I wanted. And my meals started naturally getting further and further apart, and I would simply forget to eat sometimes until late in the night because my system was still working its way through that giant steak and veggies I had last night. And so occasional fasting became a reality without me even trying.

But, eating out on the fly was a challenge. I just have to get organised again, I miss evrything about that diet, the actual food, the results, but mostly how in control I was of my body and my hunger. Not a slave to food anymore.

You can google GI table (or glycemic index)
https://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/glycemic-index has a link

Nutritionist told me "carbs, no more than the size of your fist in one meal".
Doesn't make much sense to me (hollow maccaroni, anyone?) For
some reason they seem incapable of using metric measures or weights.
"1/2 a cup of rice" ... how big a cup? Cooked or dry rice? Those were the
things driving me nuts initially

looking at the GI table, you'll see that there are huge differences between foods.
mashed potatoes, jasmine rice, ripe bananas: Baaaad.
wholemeal rye bread (home baked!)- much better. Basmati rice, better.
Funny stuff with pasta: not too bad for starters, but if you boil them, then leave them
in the fridge, then reheat them, the GI is much better.

Obviously have to cut out cookies, cakes, pre-made deserts, sweets, potato chips ... it actually
gets easy after a very short time. As your diabetes starts getting under control, the
cravings for sweet things seem to go away (at least that's my experience).
Doctor said that's because the insulin starts working again and the cells are no longer screaming for sugar.

What astonishes me is, if you go to the supermarket and look at the shelves, there
are a bazillion products that cater to a fad like 'gluten free', but try to find something
that caters to diabetics .... you may find you're s.o.o.l. I don't get it: the health
professions are railing against the epidemic of obesity and diabetes, but the food
industry completely ignores it. I started looking at labels, and it's appalling what
I found out. Sugar in canned beans? You're kidding me. Tomato sauce: 40% sugar.
etc etc. etc. Apparently it makes people crave the product, so it moves product, and
damn the torpedos.

Some good points there PWH.

The labels are indeed most revelatory.
That's why I have cream with coffee instead of milk.
Whole milk also has less sugar than half and half. It's not that different but it all adds up.
Sweet chilli sauces ranging from 26 to 46 % sugar.
I could go on and on and on

Mashed potato send my sugars skyrocketing but cold baked potato less so.
Red lentils are a lot worse for raising sugar levels than green.

I started my own baked beans and tomato sauces to avoid the added sugar and that gets back to being wary of any foods that comes in cans, bottles and packets.

Sugar industry is as powerful as the NRA in the US.
Another thing that irritates me: fat-free/low fat stuff. It should be forbidden.
And caged eggs. This is just abominable.

A good read, albeit heavy on the science: "Good calories, bad calories".

Improvements tend to be measured from where you are coming from. Doctors look at me and say you have to change your lifestyle and diet and when they get into what I eat and do they shake their heads and say they can't suggest any major changes to either except a bit more exercise. I have never eaten anything more than three meals a day cooked at home, no snacks, no large amounts of alcohol, no fast food ever but the occasional Chinese take away etc.

I resemble my father in weight being very over weight and I sometimes lose large amounts of weight due to a life long problem I have, when it is active I might lose 15 kilos but last time it was only 10 and when I go into remission my weight goes up to more than I weighed prior to the loss and this happens every time. Recent blood tests show no problems worth addressing with medication so all is good there. I am of the opinion that genetics drive my weight and as we as a population that has bred in these problems live longer the bigger the problem becomes.

When I was a child men did not routinely live past the mid to late sixties so did not have the time to develop the same problems that were undoubtedly there but also was overlooked because the medical profession had not developed as much as they have today. I know of one poster to this forum who would dearly love to put on weight and he can't do it because his genetics get in the way. We are what we are and all the management in the world will only minimise the known problems and exercise for example has a finite end to it through injury, illness, infirmity etc. Sooner or later it has to stop and what happens then. What happens then is any effect on these issues is negated and back to square one.

Comparisons with the past are tricky.

Apart from improved medical understanding and treatment.
People generally ate less and ate less processed foods but many (especially the poor) ate food with limited nutrition so developed thing like rickets and had much poorer recovery from illness.
People did less planned exercise but walked or rode bicycles instead of driving.
Physical labour was harder and tended to wear people out sooner.
OHS was non-existent and basic hygiene was limited by behaviour and infrastructure.

But we live longer and the genetic issues that are in our make up have more time to evolve while we are still living.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

But we live longer and the genetic issues that are in our make up have more time to evolve while we are still living.

Yep can't argue with that.

Originally Posted by P.W.H.

What astonishes me is, if you go to the supermarket and look at the shelves, there
are a bazillion products that cater to a fad like 'gluten free', but try to find something
that caters to diabetics .... you may find you're s.o.o.l. I don't get it: the health
professions are railing against the epidemic of obesity and diabetes, but the food
industry completely ignores it. I started looking at labels, and it's appalling what
I found out. Sugar in canned beans? You're kidding me. Tomato sauce: 40% sugar.
etc etc. etc. Apparently it makes people crave the product, so it moves product, and
damn the torpedos.

It's much more insidious than that.

We have had several decades worth of dietitians and health professionals telling us to cut down on our fat intake -- low fat / no fat = good, etc.
The problem the food industry (both processed and restaurant) has is the need for a flavour carrier. Traditionally the flavour carrier was fat -- think of the amount of butter used in French cuisine. If fat is "bad" and no fat is "good" you are essentially forced to use sugar as your flavour carrier with all the attendant increased calorie intake that entails. The alternative is a red acidic tomato sauce with no taste of tomatoes.

I agree about the fat and sugar thing.
It's far easier to pick on "fat" because unlike the sugar industry there are no real vested interests in "fat".

Originally Posted by ian

The alternative is a red acidic tomato sauce with no taste of tomatoes.

That's because of the poor quality of relatively unripe tomatoes used. My Italian background has exposed me to a wider range of very sweet tomato sauce with no added sugar. The best stuff I've had is made by the aunts near Venice. It starts by picking ripened on the vine heritage type tomatoes and then leaving them in the sun to further ripen for up to a week. Then the tomatoes are cut, deseeded, crushed, and skins removed. The liquid is bottled and cooked in the bottle.

The pasta sauce made with this involves a large knob of butter, salt and a small amount of crushed garlic. The sauce is cooked very slowly over 2-3 hours. Fresh Basil or parsley may be used but only as a garnish. The first time I had this i swore it had sugar in it.

The tomato sauce made by the Florentine aunts is similar except they prefer to use fresh tomatoes that have just started to wrinkle after being in the sun.

The Neapolitan sun being a little stronger results in tomatoes with an even more intense and sweeter flavour - all the tom sauces I've had south of Rome are pretty much the same.

SWMBO being 5 generations Aussie has always added sugar to cooked tomato type dishes until we visited Italy and now she knows what to do if she can get good tomatoes.