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12th May 2016, 09:45 AM #31
Good move RSJ. I would highly recommend joining AussieVapers | The original Australian e-cigarette community. They are very supportive and knowledgeable, and will be able to answer many questions you may have (particularly on juices and blending your own). I still haven't had a ciggie since the "tester" I had after 24 hours of vaping, although I should say that I was not as high a consumer as you sound to be.
I'll start work on that list of "things I won't miss" - I suspect you'll be surprised at some of the entries (like my ear wax production fell off a cliff immediately, my saliva thinned out and my bowels firmed up - too much). The ear wax thing is actually very significant, and it goes a bit like this:
- Ear wax is around 50% lipids (cholesterol)
- HDL Cholesterol is critical to carrying away the LDL Ch (i.e. HDL is good, LDL is bad)
- Smoking kills HDL Ch, which results in LDL hanging around and leading to ticker problems
- That would all seem to indicate that it's more HDL than LDL in the wax component.
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12th May 2016, 10:50 AM #32GOLD MEMBER
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Brett, what is the plan to get rid of nicotine consumption entirely?
CHRIS
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12th May 2016, 11:00 AM #33.
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12th May 2016, 11:13 AM #34
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12th May 2016, 11:24 AM #35GOLD MEMBER
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I took that path, I stopped other habits that led to smoking such as drinking alcohol as my smoking rose hugely when I was drinking. I still do not recall hanging out for a cigarette and it was all a bit so what for me and it is only after you give it up that the effects it had on other people and what they have had to put up with are realised. I find it slightly amusing these days to encounter smoking during the day which is a total reversal of what it was 30 years ago when most of my friends smoked me included. Giving it up these days must have a huge impact on the bank account!!
CHRIS
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12th May 2016, 03:52 PM #36.
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If you could get someone to help.
Then they could provide you with brews that have (an unknown to you) amount of nic and reduce it in a semi-random manner.
ie 90, 85 90, 75, 80, 75, 70, 60 etc
That way you don't know what you are imbibing and hopefully you won't compensate so much by taking extra hits because otherwise you will know that this week is less than last week so you will psychologically need more hits.
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12th May 2016, 07:46 PM #37
That's a good idea Bob. I don't think I'll have to do that though because I'm quite determined. Back in the late 80s I quit by using plastic filters that had an ever increasing air hole. They were dreadfully messy things to clean though, and if you didn't the lipful of tar was disastrous.
My point is that there was the temptation to put a finger over the hole, but I refrained.
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13th May 2016, 06:03 AM #38
I'm writing from the road but thought to give you all a heads-up on the current scientific thinking on these non-tobacco smoking devices. I've been in commune with a number of very good and prominent scientists this week. Many of these people are immunologists or researchers in closely allied fields. The consensus of opinion is that these devices, in particular the liquids sold as consumables, are deadly dangerous. As is detailed in the links I posted above many 'juices' contain the flavorant known as diacetyl. Diacetyl has been shown to cause very severe and progressive fatal lung disease. The other ingredients such as glycols aren't good either but they aren't as acutely toxic. I can't overemphasize this point - these devices are loaded guns and if you're using them you are at severe risk.
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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13th May 2016, 07:22 AM #39Member
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Diacetyl is naturally occuring is several foods such as butter and BEER! it is not inherantly dangerous.
Diacetyl has been linked, over long exposure times, with lung disease.
This is a much lower relative risk than smoking.
I don't know a scientist who would shove a cig back in your mouth rather than let you inhale a little bit of diacetyl.
It is also important to remember these are quiting aids, methadone isn't long term good for you either but it's better than cocaine and helps people quite (when they are willing).
If you want to look at it from a health standard, yes, it is avoidable in regards to you don't have to buy the liquid with it in but hey, if you are going to play russian roulette with a "loaded gun" you are better off doing it with 1 in the cylinder than 5.
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13th May 2016, 08:42 AM #40
The route of exposure and concentration are important here. Lung tissue is extremely delicate. Nobody smokes butter. The absolute consensus of the experts I talked to was that e-cig fluids will kill you. There was no dissent or qualification.
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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13th May 2016, 10:00 AM #41.
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I'm not a fan of putting any smoke into your lungs but if you look at your own country's PEAK Health body (not just a few individuals) the NIH, the consensus is there is not enough information on what their effects will be, including the ability to help smokers quit. The biggest red flag for me is the huge investment by major tobacco in e-cigs.
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13th May 2016, 10:21 AM #42
Just to reiterate: I'm using this as a cessation device, and I expect the period of usage might be around 4-6 months. I don't believe for a moment that eCigs are not harmful but the results and changes I've seen in my own body indicate that they are not as harmful as smoking. Probably nowhere near as harmful, but eCigs may introduce other dangers whilst mitigating the obvious ones.
In fact I seem to be using it for shorter periods at a time. I might only be outside for a couple of minutes taking perhaps 10 drags, where with a ciggie I'd be there for 5-7 minutes, and never did count the drags but probably 20-30 I suppose (rollies, not tailors).
I would imagine that the medical professionals won't have any reliable data for a decade or more, after the long term effects can be studied, given that these have only been around for a handful of years. Until then I expect the professionals to be divided, come together, divide again, just like they have been with saturated fats & cholesterol (and I'm buggered if I know the current status of that debate - it probably depends on who you talk to).
Probably the most balanced opinion would come from a doctor (or similar) who smokes - yep, they do exist - and has changed to eCigs. I can imagine that they would have done significant research.
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13th May 2016, 10:23 AM #43
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13th May 2016, 10:39 AM #44.
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13th May 2016, 10:41 AM #45
Hi Bob,
I wasn't talking to NIH staff. These opinions, combined with the extant data, are extremely worrisome. For the victims the results of the statisticians will come too late. I felt obligated to share the information on this thread because of the acute nature of the hazard. Take it for what it is, the advice of subject matter experts who understand the threat. I have absolutely no stake here, I'm simply passing a warning to my friends on the site that all is not well with these products, I feel that not doing so would be unethical.Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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