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11th December 2006, 02:55 PM #1
Japanese/American Oak's Versus Australian Timbers
I am into building martial art equipment that cannot be easily purchased in Australia or cannot be bought at a size compatible with western body sizes.
Now traditionally the Japanese use Oak to make impact weapons. Now Japanese Oak has a tighter grained then American and European Oak's and is more crush resistant.
However these day's most training weapons even those that come out of Japan use Manchurian Oak as a substitute timber, as good Japanese Oak is getting very expensive. Just visit your local Martial Art's store to see the pores timbers they are selling, as "Made in Japan".
Now I really like Australian timber, and have been experimenting with suitable local timbers. The problem is that in an environment were different people will be using different types of timber, you do not want one timber to be massively stronger then another.
Now I have found extensive information on the strengths of Australian timbers. However finding comparative data on Japanese Oak is not been possible.
I therefore wish to know if anyone here knows what Janka and elasticity rating of Oak is and what would a comparative Australian timber be.
I have experiment with Spotted Gum its good but prone to crushing and splintering to much, which can become a problem. Grey and Red Ironbark is the best and most durable I have found and is my preferred to date, however would Ironbark be considered considerable stronger then Japanese/American Oak. Also their is Cooktown Ironwood which I am yet to test. But again maybe to strong.
Last thing we need is someone beloved $40 made in China Oak bokuto etc exploding or being shredded by an Australian monster timber. Some people would cry.
I know I guy in Sydney that is doing bokuto from Cooktown Ironwood, Spotted Gum, Ironbark, mostly for the Aikido market, practicing Aikiken. Aikiken is not as demanding on the weapons as Koryu Kata.
The problem is considering relative strengths of timbers.
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11th December 2006, 04:50 PM #2
There's a member on the forum that asked the same question, pretty much.
His user name is Ikkyu... perhaps searching for his threads and pm'ing him would assist you.
Have fun....
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11th December 2006, 04:56 PM #3
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11th December 2006, 05:12 PM #4
I have sent a private message to Ikkyu. I participated in the bokken thread a while back. While this question is related I found that the old thread was rather dead.
My question is more about information that point's to the Janka, rupture, elasticity rating for Japanese Oak - Do they even use Janka outside Australia?
I got some private messages may be of interest.
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14th December 2006, 03:49 PM #5
I just posted to your other thread.
Exador does have some nice jap oak boards in good long lengths too.
cheersAny thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
Most powertools have sharp teeth.
People are made of meat.
Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.
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15th December 2006, 12:21 PM #6
Why not have a yarn with the smart boys and girls at the CRC for Wood Innovation http://www.crcwood.unimelb.edu.au/index.html?
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18th December 2006, 12:21 AM #7
G’day thumbsucker,
I haven’t spent much time training in ryu’s that involve hard bokuto to bokuto striking but as a rule we always used bokuto of the same wood you could never use a white oak bokken against say a bokken made of lignum vitae. As for timbers used for bokuto I’ve found timber that is dried well for more then 5 years works best IMO timber that is straight gained and has been dried well with good stability qualities are 100% important. I’m told that Japanese white oak (shiro kashi) is a slow growing tree that used to grow in the colder mountain areas of Japan the best wood of which was ¼ sawn and dried for over ten years. My guess is much of the wood we buy today isn’t dried for long engouh that goes for the Japanese white oak. I can’t help you with the Janka rating of Japanese white oak I’ve owned bokuto made out of this wood that would not dent under normal and then I’ve had ones that I can mark with my finger nail. I’ve also had the same with two spotted gum bokuto one was hard as rock the other dented up pretty fast taking good care of them is also another factor using the right oil e.g. pure tung oil. I have taken up Taiji Jian a chinese martial sword art lately I have given up my other training and making bokuto I’m now learning how to make scabbards and fittings for Chinese swords. I never got to the point where I found the best Aussie wood for bokuto making but only years of training with a weapon made of one of our great timbers will you find the right one. but I’m pretty sure one of our Aussie hardwoods would make a great bokuto maybe even better then that made else where . I’m no expert but I’m happy to help which ever way I can oh and I didn’t get your pm for some reason:mad:.
IkkyuI love sharp tools
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