Thread: To laminate or to steam bend this project??

Hi mfarr,

From your picture I would say those timbers were steam bent.

If you want to reproduce the same item, you will have to use the same process. Not difficult to steam timber to that shape. But buy yourself a few extra pieces and practice the steaming time and the time the timber takes to set the shape. These 2 things can vary between timbers.

Just about anything can be steam bent. BUT, the best timber to bend should be quarter sawn.
I suggest you discuss this with either a specialty timber supplier, or a saw mill.

Hard ware stores don't pick and choose their timber. They have to take what is delivered.

Best of luck with your project. It is a very elegant design.

Paul.

paul, thanks heaps for your reply, i will take your thoughts into consideration. have you steam bent much before? if so which timber do you think is most suitable? thanks

Its hard to tell in the picture, but to me it looks like laminations. Therefore it would be form laminated not steamed. There are pros and cons to both methods. Steam bending is only suited to some timbers. Many will take the steam but not hold their shape. Some wont steam at all. You also have to create a steamer and a form. In this case several different shaped forms. Knowledge and skill are required for consistant and stable bending. My first trade was as a carriage builder, making and restoring horse drawn vehicles. Steaming was a big part of our trade.
I would suggest that glue laminating would be a simpler and more reliable way to achieve your required result. Again forms for your individual shapes would be required , but a steamer would no longer be needed. You still need to be selective with specie, as bendability and durability are important. But not as critical as for steam bending. Research your glue options, as this is a major factor.

mfarr,
Yes I have done a lot of steam bending and also laminating.

I am a boat builder by addiction and earned my living from that trade for some years. I also specialized in rebuilding old houses. Which was something I really loved to do.

As I said nearly all of our timbers are able to be steam bent.

You need to see a timber supplier in your area. Most smaller operations are run by people who have knowledge about their product. They take pride in what they supply a customer.

You do need quarter sawn timber for the best results.

I will not recommend a particular timber, because that is the job of the supplier you deal with.

Yours.

Paul.

thanks, i am still not too sure as i have been given a story to both sides and i still cannot make a decision

Hi Rustynail,

Great to see another reply to this thread.

All our experiences and training add up to, what we hope is a good outcome for mfarr.
I agree, laminating would be easier.
But I did not interpret the photo that way.. Just me of course.

I have never had a problem steaming the main species here in Tas, but I have no knowledge of other mainland or international timbers.
I have also been very lucky to live in the country for 50 years, so I have been able to go to mills and have the timber I want cut for me.

Paul.

Hi mfarr.
Yes the more replies you get to your question, the more confused you might become.
That is simply because, everyone here is a product of their training and experience.
Also over many years of working, most people develop a way of working which in itself, works for them.
There might not be a "right" answer to your question, so look at the replies and decide for yourself, what would best suit you.

Paul.

Laminated would be my suggestion for a number of reasons.

The slats are thin and would cool quickly making bending and clamping a race and very difficult especially for the double bend in the arm rests. Plus, you want all the slats to be the same when the come out, and with steaming you don't know how much spring back you will get.

Laminating can be nice and slow and you can take your time, plus you will get consistency of piece. They will also be more stable over time.

Better still, mold the seat base as one and slice on a band saw for even graining and matching curve.

Originally Posted by cadas

Laminated would be my suggestion for a number of reasons.

The slats are thin and would cool quickly making bending and clamping a race and very difficult especially for the double bend in the arm rests. Plus, you want all the slats to be the same when the come out, and with steaming you don't know how much spring back you will get.

Laminating can be nice and slow and you can take your time, plus you will get consistency of piece. They will also be more stable over time.

Better still, mold the seat base as one and slice on a band saw for even graining and matching curve.

Hi Mfarr. Cadas is on the money with this one. No criticism of the steam bending cadre in the forum but this particular application requires the elements of the seat and the base to conform very closely to the same profile or its going to be very uncomfortable to sit on and or unstable on the base. There is always spring back with steam bent material and its hard to judge how much this will be plus it tends not to be consistent. I'm not a boat builder but I was priveledged to live in a Tasmanian coastal town for many years where there were 5 active major boat builders. Steam bent timbers in boat building are generally or always placed in position hot and then constrained by fastenings or cramps until they set. They don't have to opportunity to move about much and they conform to the desired shape in consequence. You are not in that favored position with this project. There is also a lot of infrastructure with steam bending and a lot of variables with heating and cooling that are difficult to control consistently

I'd go for laminating for sure. You will need to build two formers of pretty simple profile as long as you are content to laminate one element at a time and wait 24 hrs between glue ups. Those profiles are pretty benign in terms of bending required. You should easily be able to cold laminate elements comprised of lamella 5mm or 6mm thick. You don't need to have an uneven number for stability. Make sure you use a non elastomeric glue. I have successfully used marine two pack for this sort of work. It's expensive but it doesn't move in service and it allows you stacks of time to get the job together when gluing up.

An excellent Australian timber for bending is Blackwood (Acacia Melanoxolon) or Silver Wattle (Acacia dealbata). I guess the most common timber in the world for bending either by steam or cold lamination is European beech ( Fagus sylvatica). Beech is readily available in three colors from timber importers. Each of these three timbers is also has excellent gluing characteristics.

Lovely project!!!. Quite ambitious!!!.. Go for it.


Cheers OldPete

I'd be laminating as it is easier to undertake for the novice, but will still earn points for your assessment.

On another note, that chair would be a bitch to get out of , for me anyway

It would seem that most are leaning towards laminating. Should this be the way you choose to go, your choice of glue is critical. In the interest of future stability, a ridgid type glue with minimal elasticity will give the best result. It needs to be weather proof so marine type glues would be good. Almost any timber can be bent laminated. You just need to cut your veneers thinner for the stiffer timbers. For the bends you are looking for arround 5 to 6 mm would be ok, dependant on specie.

Hi Paul,
Nubeena........ it takes me back 35years when I was working down that way. Fishing was brilliant! Bay on one side and sea on the other. Are the Hamiltons still at White Bay?

Hi rustynail.
If you haven't been here for 35 years, you would not recognize the place.
White Beach, is just about built out with shacks and houses.
No Hamiltons here any more.

Paul.

Thanks all for your replies with the help of you all and my teacher, i have decided to do a bit of both laminating as well as steaming