Thread: A question on cedar

rod1949,
Point taken, but any picture would suggest that the timber is cedar. I have sat pieces beside nineteenth century cedar furniture and there is no obvious difference except the colour - but I have a chest of drawers that is a similar brown yet has the fragrance and softness of red cedar. I assumed the carriage timber was a similar brownish red cedar until I cut it for the first time and it gave off an acrid smell. It is the physical properties, not the visual ones, that distinguish it from red cedar - it is harder, heavier and it stinks.

Pitsawn

it's probably real Aust Red cedar harbouring a century's worth of tobacco smoke

Onion cedar or onion wood. Not to be confused with Spanish
cedar. Harvested and sold along with Aust red cedar. Used by the
Railway for lesser grade cedar work ie framework etc.

Originally Posted by rustynail

Onion cedar or onion wood.

Miva Mahogany is another common name for this species too i believe ...MM

Sorry Mapleman but I think you'll find that Onionwood (that was substituted for Toona ciliata) is Owenia cepiodora and Miva Mahogany is Dysoxylum rufum (mollissimum). Onionwood is extremely rare nowadays - only a handful of locales mostly in Northern NSW. MM was very common around Kin Kin where I'm located. It is reputedly one of the worst timbers for producing allergic responses - most sawmillers wouldn't touch it. I expect Rustynail would know something of its reputation! Whoops! Just found a reference stating Onionwood is another name for MM but the Onionwood used in carriages is Owenia cepiodora.

Regards, Timboz

Originally Posted by timboz

Sorry Mapleman but I think you'll find that Onionwood (that was substituted for Toona ciliata) is Owenia cepiodora and Miva Mahogany is Dysoxylum rufum (mollissimum). Onionwood is extremely rare nowadays - only a handful of locales mostly in Northern NSW. MM was very common around Kin Kin where I'm located. It is reputedly one of the worst timbers for producing allergic responses - most sawmillers wouldn't touch it. I expect Rustynail would know something of its reputation! Whoops! Just found a reference stating Onionwood is another name for MM but the Onionwood used in carriages is Owenia cepiodora.

Regards, Timboz

Miva Mahogany is absolutely stunning which is also another reason why i thought they may have used it .Have milled a bit of it in the past and its bark does have a very strong smell of onions as does Acacia Aulacocarpa...MM

has the OP tried washing a small piece in metho or warm soapy water

I'm still thinking the smell is either a finish or tobacco smoke

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Miva Mahogany is absolutely stunning which is also another reason why i thought they may have used it .Have milled a bit of it in the past and its bark does have a very strong smell of onions as does Acacia Aulacocarpa...MM

I haven't milled any aulocarpa but I've been eying off a big fella that has fallen over on my block. I'll have to sniff him out when I get around to milling him. Incidentally I always think that blackwood has a feint smell of strawberries and there is a desert acacia called Rasberry Jam!

Cheers, Timboz

I cut down framing timber from one carriage to repair the frame of an 1840s fire surround and it gave off an acrid smell. It's definitely more like burnt rubber than onion, although the age of the timber could be a factor. It's quite an unpleasant smell and stays in your clothes for hours. The timber burns to white ash.
I have since dressed an external panel with the same result. The interior surface of the panel was coated in grey primer but the outside surface had long since lost all its paint and had weathered to grey - it smelt when dressed. The two carriages (75AB and 77AB) had sat on the ground in South Gippsland since the early 1960s and were in a state of collapse due to the disintegration of their oregon longitudinal frames. They were open to the wind and rain so I think any odours from tobacco would have long gone. There were red Baltic lining boards, as well as kauri, Huon pine and red cedar, and none of these gave off the same smell when worked.
There were six of these carriages built in 1886 and one survives at the railway museum at Newport.