Thread: soft woods allergy?

I'd check to see if you have a pollen allergy

There's a page here

https://www.ubeaut.com.au/badwood.htm

Both are listed

That listing is interesting.
No mention of Western Red Cedar which is carcenagenic.
Blackbean can cause serious chest and heart problems.
Redbean no mention.
H.

Is it the dust/smell of WRC which makes is carcinogenic?

Originally Posted by qwertyu

Is it the dust/smell of WRC which makes is carcinogenic?

Wood dusts are considered the main hazard, & the general rule of thumb is that the finer the particles, the more dangerous they are, because they can penetrate further into your lungs. The dust may be an irritant of itself, or contain chemicals that are irritant or toxic or carcinogenic. Some woods, and Black Bean (Castanospermum sp.) is a good example, are well known to contain toxins, and repeated exposure to the dusts of such woods can have quit nasty consequences.

The most common effects of wood dusts are asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. These conditions occur commonly in non-woodworkers, so it's rather hard to sort out the contribution of wood in many cases, but any dusty environment is liable to exacerbate such conditions, so if you have a history of either, you'd be wise to take extra precautions to minimise/eliminate exposure to such environments.

Allergic reactions are almost impossible to predict, and the most difficult to manage. Take any compound you like and someone, somewhere, will be allergic to it. Allergies are a big problem because the effects may be very serious and out of all proportion to the dose. Most allergic reactions are relatively mild, and although most would qualify as more irritating than life-threatening, they most certainly can be! The effect tends to increase with repeated exposure, so if you do react to something it's wise to avoid that something in the future. Softwoods (used in the botanical sense of the conifer family) are generally considered less of a problem than hardwoods, however, there are always people who are going to be more susceptible to any given material than 'average'.

Carcinogenicity of wood remains a somewhat contentious field. Some experiments certainly indicate certain extracts of woods can be so, but the doses required to get measurable results are somewhat unrealistic (WRC is one, it & quite a few other plants, contain thujone, which, caused increased preputial cancers in rats). Most of the data implicating woods as a carcinogen come from surveys, some of which certainly implicate wood dust in nasal/pharyngeal cancers in particular. However, surveys only find associations & don't pick apart the actual processes through which the compounds actually cause the observed effect. Confounding factors such as formalin in engineered products or fungal toxins are difficult to impossible to allow for, and could well be the principal culprits.

Many other lifestyle choices have at least as great or greater impact on your chances of developing cancers as occasional exposure to a bit of wood dust (or will add to any dust effects). If you are prudent, you will limit exposure to any potential hazard as much as you can - minimise dust creation and use masks or other personal protection as appropriate.

Or maybe get rid of all those screaming, whining, dust-creating powered tools & become a quiet hand-tool tragic making shavings, not dust.....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Many other lifestyle choices have at least as great or greater impact on your chances of developing cancers as occasional exposure to a bit of wood dust (or will add to any dust effects). If you are prudent, you will limit exposure to any potential hazard as much as you can - minimise dust creation and use masks or other personal protection as appropriate.

Or maybe get rid of all those screaming, whining, dust-creating powered tools & become a quiet hand-tool tragic making shavings, not dust.....

Cheers,

Handsaws create dust, in fact working in a sawyer's pit is worse than power tool use

qwertyu

I can't particularly comment on the dust hazzards of wood dust in general, but I can comment on Cypress Pine. Quite a while ago I built a timber framed house using Cypress Pine. If i worked for half a day with it i would be a bit itchy. If I worked all day with Cypress my arms would develop a mild red rash and if this extended to more continuous days the rash would spread to my face and the eye area would puff up. This reaction would disappear at about the same rate it appeared, but clearly I have a mild allergy to it.

I still work with cypress pine but not normally for such long periods and the reactions when they occur are only to that first stage. It does make me sneeze a little more often too, but so do many sawdusts.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by 44Ronin

Handsaws create dust, in fact working in a sawyer's pit is worse than power tool use

If hand saws are sharp they produce mainly chips and very little fine dust.
In the case of saw pits the wood was also usually green so that resulted in even less fine dust.
Working in the saw pit was bad because of the working position with the sawdust falling direct onto the operator - the top operator had relatively little exposure.
Sanders produce heaps of invisible fine dust and can quickly fog an entire shed without the operator even realising it.

The 270 mg of fine dust in this soft drink container is sufficient to contaminate four, 6 x 4 x 2.7 m shed above the recommended OHS levels for saw dust.
If only the very finest dust is considered then about 50x less is all that is needed.
Softdrinkdust.jpg

Originally Posted by 44Ronin

Handsaws create dust, in fact working in a sawyer's pit is worse than power tool use

Ronin, I agree that being the under-dog in a saw pit would not be the most pleasant place to be, but I've used a lot of big saws on green timber & the results are shavings & chips, with virtually no dust whatever. See BobL's response - it's the fine dust with particles below about 0.5 microns that are the real villains; they remain airborne much longer & can get much further into your lungs. Most of the stuff you are actually aware of is not especially good for you, but your upper respiratory tract manages to trap nearly all of it in the mucus layers - as you will notice if you have a good honk into a tissue after being in an obviously dusty environment. Various power tools are especially good at producing fine dust - my dusty bag is supposed to hold down to 5 microns, but to judge by what coats all horizontal surfaces next morning, an awful lot of the particles my bandsaw & tablesaw generate are smaller than 5u!

I'll admit I'm far from the most careful person when it comes to dust management, and I should know better! Some dusts are definitely worse than others (silica & asbestos to name two!), and wood is probably towards the 'better' end of the spectrum, but if you want to be absolutely safe, then you do need to be vigilant. As I said, there are many things we do that are at least as likely, or more likely, to do us harm in the long run than exposing ourselves to a bit of wood dust occasionally, but so much depends on your genetic make-up & other contributing factors that it's impossible to say what is absolutely 'safe' for any one person. That's why I say just be sensible about it, if your woodworking generates a lot of dust, some of it will be fine dust, so better to take what precautions you can...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

qwertyu

I can't particularly comment on the dust hazzards of wood dust in general, but I can comment on Cypress Pine. Quite a while ago I built a timber framed house using Cypress Pine. If i worked for half a day with it i would be a bit itchy. If I worked all day with Cypress my arms would develop a mild red rash and if this extended to more continuous days the rash would spread to my face and the eye area would puff up. This reaction would disappear at about the same rate it appeared, but clearly I have a mild allergy to it.

I still work with cypress pine but not normally for such long periods and the reactions when they occur are only to that first stage. It does make me sneeze a little more often too, but so do many sawdusts.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,

My comment is that your reaction to Aust Cypress wood is typically as you noted ie itching, rash etc. The are personal reaction to irritation, is robably from wood its chemicals, some which are volatile. Different woods produce different chemicals. But it seems that the biggest variable to reactions is the person who is exposed. Some woodworkers are more susptible than others to reacting to wood dust and wood contact. To the most susceptible, becoming sensiitised (ie become more and more sensitive, each contact / reaction becoming more and more severe ). If this occurs, urgent medical attention is required. Some woods are more prone to causing this eg rosewoods and Aust. blackwood, although I have not had any reactions. Others cant handle it or enter a workshop where these were worked.

What others have said / warned about wood dust (its fineness, particulate size, how/where its formed and distributed etc) is all valid. So minimising contact and breathing wood dust, no matter which wood, is vital. If you are prone to allergies hayfever etc, all the more reason to take avoidance measures.

Cheers, Euge