Thread: Timber ID. Grevillea or Casuarina ?

Originally Posted by IanW

Thanks Euge. It's closely related alright - mostly listed as a subspecies of A. cristata, so the relationship is very close! It has always seemed so odd to me that the wood of Belah is so different from all the others, yet the tree itself is a perfectly normal-looking casuarina. The size of medullary rays mustn't have much effect on their function, because Bull oak & Belah grow within a stone's throw of each other, & presumably they have to cope with very similar conditions...

Cheers,

Hi Ian,
Agree re wood vs tree comparison.
I believe C.pauper (once a subspecies ) has been upgraded to full species status.
Would like to see how its wood compares with bulloke on hardness & density scale

PS & edit: I believe the “black oak” name come from the small black heart it often has. This may be incipient fungal attack as Ian mentions in his post above with Belah.

When Dai Sensei was here visiting to check out my “wood bank” ha ha ... he noticed a large slab of bulloke I had which I did not know what to do with. It was from near the Vic / NSW border so maybe different to the Qld bulloke. He did manage to score it for a low price. It was a flattish slab about 600 wide x about 900 long and maybe 100 thick with lovely grey, weathered exterior ... a sculptural piece I would say and beautiful to look at as it its. Lots of handles in it but would be a waste to cut up... I couldn’t bring myself to do that

Love the handles you made Ian. Euge

That's certainly a well-weathered chunk of Bull oak, Brad!

Sure is, not sure how long it’s been out in the weather. From what I gathered from the donor, it was cut up as firewood and this piece was never burned. I don’t expect I will get much out of it besides penblanks and maybe some tool handles, but will be interesting to look inside it anyway.

Ian, I note with interest your comments about spalting in bulloak. (I have just written an article for World of Wood on wood colour wood chemistry & spalting so this fits in also.)

Spalting is dryland species I have found is as common as in rainforest species. I have concluded it is the cause of much coloured heartwood eg in ebony, Wilga and Inland Rosewood and more. I have never come across in in Casuarina so thanks for adding that to the list.

Euge

I reckon Ian has got this one on the money.

Going by your description Ironwood, I'd say Ive actually got some small logs of the same species. I will try and get some pics later today/tomorrow.

When I got these logs there were still some cones attached, however, I couldn't really match them to anything in the books that I have. I believe, as Ian has noted, that it's some type of Allocasuarina.

Hmmm, similar, but not the same.

Spidering 2.jpg Spidering 1.jpg

Bark 2.jpg Bark 1.jpg

Endgrain 2.jpg Endgrain 1.JPG

Yes, looks very similar, but as you say, just a bit different .
I think we have established that it’s not a Grevillea, but in fact Allocasuarina.
This has been an interesting thread, I hope it goes for a bit longer yet.
Its bucketing rain at my place today, I want to get some pics of more rayed timber that I have, but it will have to wait till I won’t get soaked in the process. One in particular might interest Euge with the staining, I don’t think it’s on his list yet.

Originally Posted by Feckit

Hmmm, similar, but not the same.

Spidering 2.jpg Spidering 1.jpg

Bark 2.jpg Bark 1.jpg

Endgrain 2.jpg Endgrain 1.JPG

Feckit,

I reckon these are all ALL Casuarina / Allocasuarina species (and I'm ignoring the bark totally as bark doesn't say much (except for Hairy Oak where its a giveaways) ...
the rays and the wood under the bark are the giveaways in the pics above, to me anyway.
I reckon Ian would think the same.

Euge

Originally Posted by Euge

Ian, I note with interest your comments about spalting in bulloak. (I have just written an article for World of Wood on wood colour wood chemistry & spalting so this fits in also.)....

Just for the record, Euge, it was River oak (A. cunninghamiana) that had the 'black-heart', not Bull oak (I've seen previous reference to this, happening moderately commonly in River oak, but can't remember where, unfortunately). I've not seen anything similar in Bull oak, but my experience is limited to about a dozen trees or fewer, all up, so hardly a significant sample!

Originally Posted by Euge

....Spalting is dryland species I have found is as common as in rainforest species. I have concluded it is the cause of much coloured heartwood eg in ebony, Wilga and Inland Rosewood and more. I have never come across in in Casuarina so thanks for adding that to the list. ...

Yes, fungal spores + suitable culture medium + a bit of water = growth, after all.

Interestingly, pigmented fungi are not limited to plant material - there are species that like to parasitize animal tissues too. They're called dematiaceous fungi, and are not the same as the species that cause spalting of wood. They look quite spectacular under the microscope, but are not at all nice for the animal concerned if they've decided to set up housekeeping in sensitive tissues....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Euge

Feckit,

I reckon these are all ALL Casuarina / Allocasuarina species (and I'm ignoring the bark totally as bark doesn't say much (except for Hairy Oak where its a giveaways) ...
the rays and the wood under the bark are the giveaways in the pics above, to me anyway.
I reckon Ian would think the same......

Yep.

Allocasuarina & Casuarina have only recently been separated. Most would not not know them apart except for nuts.

Ian & others interested in belah & it’s closely related black oak (mostly in SA & WAI believe), here is a link from WA Forestry & wood description for the latter.
It’s wood has a very high density & like belah, has a lack of obvious medullary rays. The lack of obvious rays in the wood distinguishes these two from most casuarinas .

In the bush, one of these species needle -like foliage points upwards & with the other they droop more .. one way to tell them apart.

Oak black | Forest Products Commission

Euge

edited for better clarity than I offer get using a phone

Originally Posted by Euge

Allocasuarina & Casuarina have only recently been separated......

Well, I suppose 1982 is recent in the grand sweep of time...

Originally Posted by Euge

....... Most would not not know them apart except for nuts. ....

That's certainly true, and the differences in seeds & fruits are subtle to a non-botanist like myself. I've mixed them up in my posts above; for instance, River she-oak is still in the genus Casuarina, it seems, but Forest she-oak has been hived off into Allocasuarina. To the inexperienced eye, they can look an awful lot alike. The wood of River oak is usually different enough to spot, but I've got samples that I know for certain are River oak, and you would be hard-pressed to pick them from Forest oak.

The vast majority of Australian she-oaks are now branded Allocasuarina, and pretty much all she-oaks in the southern half of the continent are in that genus, so you can take a guess and have a high chance of being correct (River oak being one major exception). Or you can take refuge by referring to them as casuarinas (small 'c') indicating they are in the family casuarinacea, and be semantically correct. Or just call 'em "she-oaks" & we'll all have a fair idea what you are talking about...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Well, I suppose 1982 is recent in the grand sweep of time...

... . To the inexperienced eye, they can look an awful lot alike. The wood of River oak is usually different enough to spot, but I've got samples that I know for certain are River oak, and you would be hard-pressed to pick them from Forest oak

Agree, some show amazing variation.

The vast majority of Australian she-oaks are now branded Allocasuarina, and pretty much all she-oaks in the southern half of the continent are in that genus, so you can take a guess and have a high chance of being correct (River oak being one major exception). Or you can take refuge by referring to them as casuarinas (small 'c') indicating they are in the family casuarinacea, and be semantically correct. Or just call 'em "she-oaks" & we'll all have a fair idea what you are talking about...

Cheers,

True, not that recent ... but, both are "casuarinas" to me in general discussions like here. (Its enough to know some or even most are Allocasuarina species.) I like using "casuarina" and genus names like eucalypt for general talk, except when talking to woodies who mostly prefer common names.

Some blokes prefer bull-oaks I believe over sheoaks

To those more interested in precision (eg Corymbia over some eucalypts and even Angophora) the proper botanical names are best and even these (as you note) change frequently. So to me, old names are synonymous with new names, as long as one is aware of both. Some botanists don't agree among themselves (and I'm not botanist, just an enthusiast with an interest in trees and their wood properties).

Euge