Thread: Why do timber suppliers hide their prices / stock lists?

Most suppliers have a significant range of discounts based on volume and sometimes on the trade of the purchaser. Retail sales are not a significant part of the business for most suppliers and there is no fixed price to quote.

If you'd like a quote, just ring the supplier.

On the subject of websites, I have one in development at the moment which will feature a shopping cart that will manage the volume/customer discounts. It should be live in about a couple of weeks.

I don't really expect it to be very well used by trade purchasers.

Originally Posted by mossyblog

I'm a Google generation guy, when I'm looking to buy something i like millions around the world will hit the Google.com for the answer first. Then after a comparison etc I then actually will drive and pick the thing up in person etc.

I have noticed that for some reason timber supplier websites are either broken, half-done, don't display stock lists or for that matter prices?

I get there maybe some competition related issues around specific prices, but even a ball park figure around what stock is on hand ... ie MDF 2400x1200x16 - approx $31-40 per sheet.

This helps newbies like me figure out the cost etc for a project and what not.

Is there a reason I'm not aware of? especially i am assuming those timber places that did opt for a website must have paid a few hundred - thousands of $$ for the sites? so the return on investment is probably shallow at the moment.

I should also point out to those timber companies with websites, the underlying concept of what you can do online is realistically cheap and i'm tempted to write a engine that will enable you guys to put your stock online etc for free as its very basic and i'd hate if you guys were spooked from doing this due to cost etc?

mossyblog

I put my prices on my web site. It does have a disadvantage that other suppliers can use this information to their advantage. But far as I'm concerned thats the best price I can do and if they can do it for less it's OK by me. Getting into a price war is not good for long term business success.

As far as reporting and updating stock figures is concerned that in my mind is not realistic for any business. Even if the stock records are kept on a computer how often do you update the web site. hourly, daily, weekly or monthly. The work involved on a even a weekly basis to me doesn't warrant the trouble. I normally stock what I list and most business's would also. I suppose there would be a benefit to customers if I updated when sold out and advised when I would be restocking but to my mind you can only go so far and then the cost benefit ratio to the business is out of balance.

Sending an email of your requirements and requesting a quote is an easy option for the customer and it gets the information you need promptly but maybe not immediately.

Whitewood

mossyblog, your question does not just relate to the timber industry. It seems most retailers are adverse to putting their full range up on the internet. There are a few exceptions, and where they do, they do not provide stock quantity information. Then they complain that consumers are going off shore for internet purchases. Like you, I go to the internet first when looking for an item. For example, bunnings has nothing. Carba-tec provide no stocking information. BCF only put catalogue information up.

I can appreciate the disconnect in practice between incoming / outgoing stock not being in sync with the websites. That being said, making the two systems work with one another is realtively simple and i'd be curious to see how folks manage their internal stock and external stock? As i'm assuming there is a balance sheet somewhere (excel, access, pos system etc).

I also agree, specific pricing can be a slippery slope.. so even a range price is still helpful and then it comes down to a discussion with the timber yard in question around what they can do etc which is a deep touch / sales discussion.

I'm considering now writing a POS system for Timber folks to interconnect both offline/online in one. Having just come home from working at Microsoft, this kind of thing is something I can probably do for the hobby i've grown to love/use! D hehehe

Many merchants have permanent stock orders with suppliers. If they don't have it on the shelf, it will be coming in tomorrow or the day after. Also, some merchants act as agents, especially when it comes to flooring and mouldings, so their stock on hand is non-existent, although the product may be available for immediate shipment from elsewhere.

I use Virtuemart as my shopping cart and can update it with .csv files. If that process could be automated, it would be good.

Yeah, off the shelf eCommerce plugins for CMS's like Joomla etc work to a certain point but typically the work in a standrd SKU / stock fashion. A site like yours would probably make use of not only the usual price per unit metadata but also enabling customers to put together a project plan / cutting list that gets close to an automated quote (with human to human approval) would probably streamline your digital ordering process more so than these style solutions (which were really purpose built for selling simple products like tables, chairs, tv's etc online).

Automating a CSV POST from your internal POS system (where you get the data from) through to the website is also something that can be done relatively easily.

I noticed you don't have your site online atm? so its hard to guage that workflow.

I'd be curious to see if you'd be open to an experiment in this spaace? ie i'm writing a prototype today to look into a solution that in theory could work in this space? ie wanna be my guinea pig?

If you look at a few photos of Mal's or my stock on the farm, you may understand why we don't put stock figures on the web........ we don't know exactly what's there, well....we sort of know.....

There's about 400 cubic metres of stock in various drying states and around 100 cube of logs, +- 20%
You may say What! How can a business run in that fashion?

It's called management by walking around, an old fashioned concept where the business owner knows what he has and can lead potential customers to stacks of timber of various types and sizes to show them what is available.

He can also discuss requirements on the phone, make suggestions, select, cut to order if needed and ship where wanted.

Of course it helps if you have acres and acres of land in which to place stock.

His business is not the sort of business that should be run on a computer.
Although, I must admit, we have set up an email and web site (Boutique Timbers) for him last year and we are getting enquiries through that, but he generates enough customers through wood shows, yellow pages and local area knowledge and word of mouth to make it a success.

You may find this unseemly, you may think it is a recipe for failure.....but...... it works and that is the measure of success of a business, not exact stock knowledge availability on line.

Regarding price, everything is negotiable, but as a rule of thumb, all timbers sell from 1500-4000 cubic metre

We 'sort of' know what we've got, but time is short and we don't have the time to produce and constantly update stock figures. We are better off spending time processing logs and dealing with customers as they visit or call

Regards
Greg

Greg,

I by no means am the guy who knows how the timber industry works and should work preacher hell I just figured out what the difference in wood types were last week, green is not the term i'd use.

That being said, knowing what's on hand potentially vs accurately is still fair game? in that one could strike a balance between guestimation and estimations and still be content with it digitally online.

Also, having the timber yards making their website a extra process in their "it works" workflow seems to be backwards. The purpose of software was to reduce work not increase it and so striking a balance there is whats missing not so much the idea that consumers like me wanting to position a plan can do so with confidence?

I say this as I often notice in bunnings a lot of ad-hoc purchasing behavior like some of the people within are scared of admitting they have no clue what they are doing and just following others leads at times in timber selection. This has a lot to do with confidence I think and approaching a timber yard for the first time can be a daunting process as you're still trying at times to figure out the best way to convey width,thickness and length and in which order those numbers are..not to mention you've got Linear Meter vs square meter decisions to make - followed closely by mm vs inches catchups

There's a lot to process at times for newbies but once they build that muscle they are soon shop talking with the best of them ? my point here is that it could be either a bad thing for timber yards (who make it work with low tech) or it could be a boon to those who approach high-tech processes like these with the right software in mind etc.

If your a timber yard and have to manually enter your stock into a database specifically for the web then thats a fail. If you have a digital cash register and you sell wood via it, you can link this to the web ..in fact a pos system these days is really a normal computer with a touch screen and binary signal that opens and closes a cash draw

Anyway, I think there is a lot to offer in this space and me thinks that the bunnings etc scoops this up fast simply because there's a lot of signal vs noise confusion around how to even approach it.. (thank god for this forum as its taught me a lot in a short space)

The problem is, I don't see hardware shops as sellers of furniture timbers.
They have a limited range and sell mainly for renovators or construction rather than furniture and wood working.
There are around 30 or so popular timbers that are regularly used in furniture, some hardwoods, some imported, some rare. This forum is great as it exposes readers to the possible types that can be used, how they can be used and opportunities for working with wood to create lasting heirlooms.
Niche marketers of timber, such as Boutique Timbers and Anagote and Trend in Sydney are there to provide a service and offer options. Timber is the product, they really deal in relationships.
I agree, large timber merchants and hardware stores need to match demand with stock and your thinking could well match their needs.
With niche marketers, sometimes, stock is matched to demand.
Greg

Greg:

Fair call, I hadn't thought it from that perspective. Its an interesting insight into the overall wood industry pipeline from the tree to <insert your end point here>. Its also a turbulent water to tread as well as whilst over time you learn via forums like this the in's and out's of the industry the overall up skill and learning curve is also at times expensive (unnecessarily) and contains a lot of mystery? (trial and error mixed with word of mouth).

I wonder if its a missing piece in the overall story? as all those contractor / DIY power tools etc that are on the market today in large quantities I may add, surely have a home in this space? anyway, i think i am getting a picture as to why most companies just don't play the online space like i assumed they would

Its maybe that the furniture / wood turner etc type guy/gal isn't a minority, probably a vocal one at that but still a minority?

One reason is that they leave room for bartering, and knowledge of the buyer, another is that the price of timber from the big suppliers like petrol is continually floating one day it might be $1000 a cube for 4x2s in pine the next it may be $900 or $1200 so it is hard to keep prices updated on a website especially when you may have 30 or more products which are then broken up again into 30 different sizes per product. And as exador says they have a sliding discount price for those who buy in bulk, as most dealers also get this sliding scale from their suppliers.