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  1. #16
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    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Default Devil's Advocate

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shed View Post
    That is only legally enforcable if the senders' invoice has a Romalpa clause on it.

    NetLaw - Civil Law
    Ok, so what would happen if the vendor puts a Romalpa clause on the invoice which accompanies the goods, but the buyer rejects that when he sees it? In other words "I didn't know that was going to be on there and i rejected those terms", then goes belly up before the goods have been sent back (which is what I would presume should happen when a buyer rejects the terms).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

    COLT DRILLS GROUP BUY
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  3. #17
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    In the timber trade that has always been a standard part of the contract.
    Usually simplified to read: "Goods remain property of vendor pending full payment."

  4. #18
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    sounds to me like tha guy at weithril park was owed money too from the botany guy and has made up the storey to keep this stuff to try to get some money back,

    its got me stuffed who is involved in this but good chances are the weithrill park place does timber milling.

  5. #19
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    Default joys of business

    There comes a time in business, when further action is not worth the angst or trouble and it is best to put it down to experience.
    Mal has written this off as a 'hit' as he is not fussed to waste any more time chasing goods which are not really traceable as one piece of timber looks like another.
    Thanks for all your thoughts, just means he will have to work a little smarter in future. COD is great!
    Greg

  6. #20
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    I know the feeling Greg, Gives me the ##### every time it happens.
    "We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer

    My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com

  7. #21
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    Greg,
    I understand your logic. One can waste a lot of time trying to track the untrackable.
    Just a thought.... If the wetherill park company can't produce documents of transport, the buck stops with them. For these documents to be complete, they must show proof of receipt.

  8. #22
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    Default Off topic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturdee View Post
    I know but when do most laws make sense as they are made by politicians.


    BTW I once worked for a company that went into receivership and subsequent liquidation. Some may know it, it was the Swagman Restaurant in FTGully.

    I worked with the owners to take the company out of receivership with a buyout that would have paid all the creditors 100 c in the dollar over a few years. This was supported by all the major creditors but refused bt the Receiver.

    So it was suggested we apply to the Supreme Court for a meeting of all creditors to consider the proposal.

    It ended up with 10 days hearing in the Practice Court, with 5 QC's representing various interests at a cost of $ 100 K to be paid by the liquidator as the court placed it in liquidation.

    At the creditors hearing called by the Liquidator the buy out was finally approved, but the receiver remained with the liquidator behind him and overseeing him.

    All this shemozzle meant that the unsecured creditors got 23 c in the $ after all these extra costs were paid.

    All according to the law but no common sense and it sucks as well.


    Peter.
    This reminds me of when my bro got divorced. A few years ago.
    The locals gals were telling his missus to go him 60/40.
    He said fair enough we'll get solicitors involved and you may get 60 but it will only be the same $ as 40 after those blood sucking x!z?!! get paid.
    She was smart enough to twig and they parted friends and he fixed the wiring on her new house and now she and his new girlfriend are looking out for him.
    He's got Parkinson's.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    Greg,
    I understand your logic. One can waste a lot of time trying to track the untrackable.
    Just a thought.... If the wetherill park company can't produce documents of transport, the buck stops with them. For these documents to be complete, they must show proof of receipt.
    I thought that all of the local couriers were classified as common carriers and their liability is limited to a few hundred dollars unless specifically insured.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shed View Post
    That is only legally enforcable if the senders' invoice has a Romalpa clause on it.

    NetLaw - Civil Law


    Retention of title clauses are now classified as security interests under the PPSA. Accordingly, they must be perfected (registered) in order to retain priority in the event of various things (like liquidation or sale to a third party for value without notice). If the registration is accompanied by a statement to the effect that the interest is a "purchase money security interest", it will gain priority over other registered interests (although there are exceptions).

    The PPSA is still fairly new so practitioners and the industry are adapting - but note that simple retention of title clauses are not necessarily sufficient to protect interests anymore.

  11. #25
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    If you haven't paid for it, you don't own it. It's that simple.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    If you haven't paid for it, you don't own it. It's that simple.

    It's not that simple. Ownership passes with title. Title doesn't necessarily pass with payment. In any case, even where title hasn't passed, the goods vest in the company for distribution on liquidation where they are in possession. Other problems arise when the goods have been transferred to a third party.

    Hence why retention of title clauses exist. Although my point above is that with the ppsa, they should be registered as security interests.

  13. #27
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    Many are the bolsters that have been picked up through lack of payment.
    Good remain the property of the vendor until paid for. Or is just unique to the wholesale timber trade?

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    Many are the bolsters that have been picked up through lack of payment.
    Good remain the property of the vendor until paid for. Or is just unique to the wholesale timber trade?

    That people continue to believe this sort of thing is part of the reason why they, and others, don't adequately secure their interests. The rights of a liquidator are strong. Unsecured interests are weak. For those of you who know of jacksons rare guitars in Sydney - it went under recently with 1M in guitars held that were on consignment - none had been registered. The consignors were extremely lucky and managed to get their guitars back - after many legal opinions were drafted.

    There are countless other examples of people who were not so lucky. Now that the.ppsa is in force, and many people are not aware of it, there will be countless more clogging up the courts. So for anyone drafting supply contracts who might be reading this - register your security interests. Retention clauses are no longer enough nor is relying on basic contractual right such as breach for failure to pay.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    Good remain the property of the vendor until paid for.
    Generally yes, but NOT in a case of a company going into receivership and/or liquidation because the law says otherwise.

    Also if a person supplies goods to a builder (in this case timber) and the builder uses it in construction of a building and then fails to pay for it, it's illegal for the supplier to enter the building site and remove his goods. All he can do is sue for payment in the courts.

    Maybe stupid, maybe abnormal to normal people but that's the way our wonderful laws are. Blame the politicians who made these laws.

    Peter.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbag9 View Post
    That people continue to believe this sort of thing is part of the reason why they, and others, don't adequately secure their interests. The rights of a liquidator are strong. Unsecured interests are weak. For those of you who know of jacksons rare guitars in Sydney - it went under recently with 1M in guitars held that were on consignment - none had been registered. The consignors were extremely lucky and managed to get their guitars back - after many legal opinions were drafted.

    There are countless other examples of people who were not so lucky. Now that the.ppsa is in force, and many people are not aware of it, there will be countless more clogging up the courts. So for anyone drafting supply contracts who might be reading this - register your security interests. Retention clauses are no longer enough nor is relying on basic contractual right such as breach for failure to pay.
    Were they lucky to get their guitars back, or was it how they went about it?
    Your comment about registering consignments is very good advice.
    The practice of ordering prior to liquidation has been a common one for many years. Particularly in the case of exotic timber. It is good to know that, at last, facilities have been provided which enable suppliers some recourse.
    Hopefully it is not just another toothless tiger or money spinner.

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