Thread: Is timber a viable option for the woodworking hobbyist?

@Scribbly Gum
@Greg Ward

Guys, you are great and so incredibly generous I definitely am loathe to say this but you are a tad off topic. But don't get me wrong! your information and advice is first rate and well appreciated believe me and I would not have missed it for the world it will definitely be of great use to me "going forward' as our pollies now invariably say.

First let me say - I am not in Sydney I am in Bundanoon in the Southern Highlands. I have recently moved here from Sydney and the additional costs involved with the distance from a major city were well known to me when deciding to make the move, I am not complaining about that at all.

I have dealt with many of the sources mentioned and, for what I call "exotic woods", which for me these days seems to be everything except radiata pine , and I may have to modify that to MDF soon . I agree they are great sources.

The move has been to a larger house and I am short of both indoor and outdoor furniture so I thought I would like to make some of it if it is economically feasible - so I did some browsing on the internet for ideas, plans etc., and then I went to cost it all - shock, horror!

Just going back to my original post, what I am really getting at is that, as the links I have provided show, the Americans can walk into their local hardware shop and buy what to me looks like great timber, for a great price, and build furniture like my links show, for prices well within my budget. When I try to do the same here:

a) The hardware stores (I have Bunnings, Home Hardware, Magnet Mart, and the Tool Box) I go to have:

a) little choice of timber species
b) high prices
c) ridiculously poor quality (except in some rare cases as previously mentioned)

(BTW I should say these stores are seling the same stuff as the Sydney stores, it's nothing to do with their location, I double checked that recently when I went up to Carba-tec to buy a kreg Pocket hole jig.)

Yes I am whinging, but I maintain it is a legitimate whinge, and if we don't whinge why would anything change?

If I want to build a nice jewellery box that may become an heirloom I don't mind making the 2 hour trip to Sydney, paying the price of some lovely rosewood, etc. Or paying the cost of shipping, because it is ultimately, all up, a small(ish) investment.

But if I want to build an outdoor set, or a rustic table, or bench, then I really think I should be able to get that timber, at a reasonable price, from a local outlet - and that means a hardware store for me, AND, and forgive me for saying this, but I think I should be able to do that significantly more economically than going to a store and buying it (the furniture that is).

Having said all that I think now that I have posted in the wrong section, as for most here, the concept of timber for woodworking IS what I regard as the more exotic species, and to be quite honest, I don't know whether we pay too much for that or not - probably in some areas yes others not. I probably should have posted into what is more of a DIY section. Well it resulted in lots of interesting discussion and unveiled, what to me, was hitherto unknown information - so not a total loss.

BTW, and this is slightly off topic, but here are some other pet peeves of mine.

What I REALLY like about Anagote in Marrickville, is that they are, as far as I know, unique in actually posting a price list for their products, thus making it much easier to weigh up things like aesthetics versus price. I don't know of any other supplier that does this - do you?

When I open up my copy of Australian Woodsmith I see all of these do it your self jigs (and other things) made of this beautiful plywood with zillions of perfect layers and flawless face veneers - I can honestly say I have NEVER see such ply in Australia either for sale or in a product - until recently when I came across some sort of plaster board jig (I forget exactly what it was for) in Bunnings. It was made of this really nice plywood - what a pity they don't also sell sheets of the stuff. It was only $15 or something I think and I almost bought it just to use the plywood. Has anyone a source for this type of ply? I guess somewhere like Mr Ply&Wood etc may, but I have never been to one of their stores, and they don't give away much on their web site.

When I look at these woodwork magazines, and You Tube videos, they quite often have something like use a bit of scrap to test this out, or use a bit of sacrificial scrap to prevent tear out - what? I don't have anything I call scrap! every piece of wood, including MDF, and old melamine I bought from Reverse Garbage (which can be, or at least was, a good source BTW) is precious - what are they getting at? LOL. Anyone else agree?

Oh well in for a penny in for a pound as they say, I can't have trodden on many more toes - any one else have any pet peeves (and don't say posters who post their pet peeves and whinge and carry on - that's a given). And, of course, solutions to these peeves always welcome (and don't say leave the country).

Sorry in advance.

This has certainly turned into an interesting thread, even if your not quite getting the answers you are after.


re; Are there any woodworkong clubs in your area ?

Originally Posted by garym

Alas no, but for interest sakes why do you ask?

I think most of the reasons I asked this question have already been answered by some of the other posters,thanks Guys.
But it is also a means of having access to machinery you dont already have, eg; thicknesser and jointer.


I am not sure of the prices in the US, I have never had reason to check up on them, but I always assumed they would be paying as much or more than us for quality timber. Maybe I was wrong.

What timber species does HD sell in the US, are you comparing apples with apples?

I have watched shows on Austar (payTV) called "Swamp Loggers" and "Extreme Loggers", they are clearfelling huge tracts of land, not sure how much of this goes on over there, but it doesnt happen here anymore (not to my knowledge anyhow).
All of this timber is being milled, maybe this is what helps to keep prices low over there.

It would be interesting to hear from some of our members from over that way, to hear their take on this.

Keep your eye on the Marketplace forum, there are always bargains to be had, check out this recent thread-- https://www.woodworkforums.com/f222/h...20-lot-144023/ $20 for 14 lineal meters of Hoop Pine, bargain.

Then there was Maplemans epic sale -- https://www.woodworkforums.com/f222/q...-slabs-123584/ I know it was slabs, but they can be broken down fairly easily.

What about some Bunya Pine ? https://www.woodworkforums.com/f222/p...-bords-138521/

Quite a few members got some bargains in this sale also -- https://www.woodworkforums.com/f222/m...e-sale-139023/

As already mentioned, Greg Ward is always offering good cheap stuff on there as well, I see he has made a generous offer to you already, good on you Greg .

I know a lot of this timber is probably too far for you to travel to pick it up, but there is always the possibility of organising transport to get it to you.
Its always cheaper to buy timber in packs, may be more than what you currently need, but leftovers always come in handy later.

I know this has not answered your original Question either, but there is better options for us than the big B.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

This has certainly turned into an interesting thread, even if your not quite getting the answers you are after.

yes, lot's of useful info to store for Ron.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

re; Are there any woodworkong clubs in your area ?

I think most of the reasons I asked this question have already been answered by some of the other posters,thanks Guys.

Indeed, and to be honest the first thing I did when I moved down here was look for such a club, and the closest I could find was the Canberra woodworking Guild - actually Sydney is probably closer come to think of it.

I think there must be something in the area but as yet I haven't found it. There is a "Men's Shed" group.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

But it is also a means of having access to machinery you dont already have, eg; thicknesser and jointer.

Yeah it would be useful, although if I could find a cheap source of undressed timber I could justify buying them myself.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

I am not sure of the prices in the US, I have never had reason to check up on them, but I always assumed they would be paying as much or more than us for quality timber. Maybe I was wrong.

Well it's certainly true for the examples I have given, whether you would call it quality wood or not is debatable, certainly, if compared to what our hardware stores are selling, it looks to me like it is. I was just shocked to find out how much more expensive it is - I mean 4-5 times the price?

I suppose it would vary on timber species, I think the more local exotic timbers may be more in line we pay for especially those that they have to import.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

What timber species does HD sell in the US, are you comparing apples with apples?

almost certainly NOT, but that was part of my argument, they seem to have easy access to a much wider range of species (I am not talking about exotics) than we do, poplar, oak, maple, quality ply, etc - and of course I am talking about through their "Big Box" stores. I note that Master's in Melbourne is selling poplar BTW - not that I am extolling it's virtues in any way - but it does show it can be done.
[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Ironwood

I have watched shows on Austar (payTV) called "Swamp Loggers" and "Extreme Loggers", they are clearfelling huge tracts of land, not sure how much of this goes on over there, but it doesnt happen here anymore (not to my knowledge anyhow).
All of this timber is being milled, maybe this is what helps to keep prices low over there.

yes I have been wondering if we are detrimentally affected (price wise) by any environmental limits on local and imported timber.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

It would be interesting to hear from some of our members from over that way, to hear their take on this.

Yes I am surprised no one has come in on it. it would be good to get a first hand opinion.

Cheers, thanks again for the reply.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Keep your eye on the Marketplace forum, there are always bargains to be had, check out this recent thread-- https://www.woodworkforums.com/f222/h...20-lot-144023/ $20 for 14 lineal meters of Hoop Pine, bargain.

gee I can't deny that, I haven't used hoop pine before, but I have seen it mentioned - it's supposed to be pretty useful stuff isn't it? Pity it's up in Brisbane.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

As already mentioned, Greg Ward is always offering good cheap stuff on there as well, I see he has made a generous offer to you already, good on you Greg .

yes I hope he realises how much I appreciate that offer.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Its always cheaper to buy timber in packs, may be more than what you currently need, but leftovers always come in handy later.

Yes, that is something I need to know more about. It may well be worth my while to do that and use resawing, laminating, finger jointing, etc to derive most of my requirements. Is there anywhere I can research that in terms of what's available, pricing, shipping etc.?

Originally Posted by Ironwood

I know this has not answered your original Question either, but there is better options for us than the big B.

Useful info - thanks.

personally i think it's a great thread.gary,as a few who have replied with reasons as to why the costs are greater over here,i will agree with them.economies of scale,i think go a long way to explaining the difference.another reason is market forces. ie;the more demand for a product the higher the price.and i don't think you will able to make, for instance;an outdoor table,for the same price as the bloke who does it for a living,due to the fact he will source his supplies more cheaply than you could expect to pay at the hardware store.as for more exotic specieces or hard to get timber, prices are put up to reflect the difficulty in obtaining them in the first place. what i mean by that is if i have a blackwood tree and a radiata pine of the same size, cut to the same size boards,the blackwood will sell for a higher price due to the fact there is less of it on the market.even though the time in milling it is the same.hope this all makes some sense.regards andrew

If you want pine the cheapest way is buy it by the pack from a building supply who specialise in wood products.

I use to buy merchant grade packs of 290/19x3000 50pc for about $500ish(would be well over $600 now), of course its not the best quality its the lowest but if you go through the pack you would come up with about 40~50% of clears grade, if you ordered "true" clears grade it would be over $100 a plank(not that you can get that grade in that size...).
BTW I had too travel over 450k's to get them from Adelaide, your close to Sydney probably the biggest market for building supplies in Oz... all it takes is a tray back ute or a trailer!

All things being equal economies of scale will of course make a difference, but as at least some of the timber is or can be imported, then as for many items we purchase, we can take advantage of a world sized market rather than a local one.

Again though, whilst I can't be surprised that any particular product is more expensive here, due mainly to shipping costs, I am still surprised and shocked that it is so much MORE expensive. I mean what we are actually saying is all these extra costs that you and others have mentioned add up to 400% of the cost of the item overseas. Ok I may be wrong but my gut feeling is, well, that it just can't be right!

With regard to the more exotic woods, please be aware that I didn't actually bring that up, all though I did talk about timber in a general sense I suppose - but I agree it goes without saying that the harder to get species will incur a significant extra cost. However, it may not necessarily justify the price of those exotic species compared with what they are overseas - but I haven't compared those species so I don't know for a fact that they are, but in the past when I looked at Anagote's prices I had the feeling that, whilst expensive, weren't 4-10 times the price of the same timber overseas as I have found hardware species to be.

One thing that I think I mentioned before that I am also surprised at though is the lack of any other species of timber, of comparable quality (and hence price) to pine (and I say that in a very loose sense of course) being available in hardware stores.

That seems to be changing slightly with the start up of the Master's stores as they appear to be stocking poplar - has anyone used poplar? and is there someone down in Melbourne who has been to the Master's store down there who can tell me what they are asking for it?

BTW apropos of nothing, I was looking at Anagote's prices a while back because I was looking for cigar box cedar to make cigar box guitars - a project I must get back to shortly - happily they have it and will resaw and dress it for me.

Finally, does anyone have a source for blackbutt? and can they give me an indication of what is normally asked for it?

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Harry72

If you want pine the cheapest way is buy it by the pack from a building supply who specialise in wood products.

I use to buy merchant grade packs of 290/19x3000 50pc for about $500ish(would be well over $600 now), of course its not the best quality its the lowest but if you go through the pack you would come up with about 40~50% of clears grade, if you ordered "true" clears grade it would be over $100 a plank(not that you can get that grade in that size...).
BTW I had too travel over 450k's to get them from Adelaide, your close to Sydney probably the biggest market for building supplies in Oz... all it takes is a tray back ute or a trailer!

It's certainly something I need to look in to - I think I could source something like that much closer but I would probably need to get it delivered or I suppose I could hire a ute (I wish I had a ute...)

Harry72 were you using it yourself or trading it on? If using it yourself could I ask what you were using it for?

what about the woodage at mossvale than have a great ramge of timber, there is also castle wood which has great timber,

you have moss vale home hardware which as a good timber yard around the cnr with building timbers, they also sell carbatec tools at same price as the store in alburn.

Originally Posted by Gaza

what about the woodage at mossvale than have a great ramge of timber, there is also castle wood which has great timber,

you have moss vale home hardware which as a good timber yard around the cnr with building timbers, they also sell carbatec tools at same price as the store in alburn.

Hi Gaza, yeah the Woodage (actually in Mittagong) is a sort of upmarket flooring timber specialist, nothing there for the hobbyist that I could see, yeah I go to home hardware (also Mittagong) quite often. They have a standard, although smallish hardware shop ,and, in a different location a large building supply type operation. It's the sort of place where they expect you to turn up with a truck and they ask you how many tonnes you want, although I think they would be good for flooring etc. Most of their stuff is treated pine etc, and what I could find of anything suitable for my purpose was pretty much the same price as you would find in Bunnings etc. However, the idea of buying by the pack may be a possibility with them and I intend to suss that out.

Whilst Home Hardware have an arrangement with carbatec they don't actually stock much (last time I was in they had a thicknesser and that was all) but they will order things in from them for you. Last time I was in I had a long chat with one of the staff and he indicated that they weren't happy with the arrangement with carbatec and would probably drop it. Apparently urgent orders have gone missing, long delays etc. etc.

I was going to order a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig through them but it happened I was going up to Sydney so I got it from the Auburn shop - ha! now I have the jig and nothing to use it with...

I haven't heard of castle wood do you have more info? A link perhaps?. A quick search on Google didn't show anything up.

I use the pine myself, if you do a search here using my name in the woodwork pictures thread you will see what use I put it too

Originally Posted by Harry72

I use the pine myself, if you do a search here using my name in the woodwork pictures thread you will see what use I put it too

Yep, you certainly do! really nice stuff.

You have more-or-less gone through the process I am about to embark on, only I am going to attempt to use mainly MDF to reduce costs, and, of course, I won't have most of the machinery you have, but you seem to make great use of your router (table?) and that's encouraging.

Cheers.