Thread: Is timber a viable option for the woodworking hobbyist?

It does look like we pay too much a lot of the time. I keep an eye on builders rubbish heaps and council pick-ups for free bits and pieces. You would be surprised how often builders throw out quit substantial timbers. Also some really fine timber can be got from dismantling old furniture, lots of oak, coachwood, hoop pine, even australian red cedar.Furniture made fifty to a hundred years ago was often made with high quality solid timber.

Yeah I have been down that route too, but of course that approach is now illegal in most areas and can result in substantial fines if caught. Also large pieces are difficult or impossible to transport unless you have a ute, van, or truck, and if you knock them down on site you increase your chances of getting caught. To be honest I don't see much wooden furniture being thrown out these days.

OTOH I do have an (not that) old sofa with some good looking timber in it coming my way soon, I will be able to knock it down on site and lug it in my car (~130k each way though...)

The problem is you can't rely on these sources. If you are like me when you want do do something you want to be able to start on it before you lose the motivation, and if you haven't got the exact right stuff in your "stash" you've got a problem, which begs the question is it worth investing in jointers/thicknessers to allow a broader range of timbers to be used (via resizing or laminating)?.

Still I still don't see why timber has to be so expensive and would like to know why it is.

Now .... let's see.
You pay the farmer around $500/cubic metre, . OK... cheaper for hardwood, but more for large high quality trees.
You have to arrange to transport the logs, say from Qld at a cost of around $100-200/cubic metre, similar cost anywhere.
You lose 25% minimum on processing into boards, sometimes more than 50%
There is a labour cost and processing cost to turn the logs to boards
You have to dry them for upwards of minimjm 1 year, financing cost say 10% of the above.
You have to sell them, if you have a shop, there are shop overheads, staff, electricity, rent..... around 25% of cost of goods
Profit, say 30% an awful word perhaps to you, but without it, no-one will process timber.

Selling around $1500/cube will make a small profit for cheap logs, $3000 pr more is needed for high quality furniture timbers

And you want to buy the timber for what???... Nothing???

I can sell you as much hobby red cedar as you want at $3/super foot, natural edge, light coloured....but you pay for what you get. For high qlaity dark cedar, expect to pay $7/super foot minimum

There have been threads on this before.

As an aside, I had a guy reject a beautiful jarrah small slab today because it had small crack on one side. 1.6 metres x 700 x 45. priced at $2600/cube. $120
That slab cost $1500/cube, plus freight from WA plus freight to N NSW and back, plus cost of funds. $2600/cube is cheap for good timber. I do this for beer money as a bit of fun, sometimes it's not much fun.

Go to the wood show next year on Sunday for the specials if you want cheap timber

Greg

If thats the slab of Jarrah I saw last Saturday its a shame, its a beauty.

I think you can find plenty of better sources for timber than Bunnings.
I wouldnt even think to look in a Hardware store for timber if I was building a piece of furniture. If you want quality timber you do have to pay the price.

Some options for cheaper timber are-
Keep an eye out in the "for sale" section on this forum. Check the classified ads in your local newspaper, or trader magazine. In my area there are occasional bargains to be had if you keep an eye out.
Demolition yards have second hand timber, this could be an option for you.
I have got good timber from the tip before, but that is getting harder to do these days.

Tools to break down, dimension, and dress timber, such as a table saw, bandsaw, thicknesser and jointer, are definetely an asset. But people do seem to manage without a full workshop at their disposal .

Are there any woodworking clubs in your area ?

I do not totally agree that it is hard to find good wood or get a regular supply of wood.

What I found is to have a particular project in mind and then decide on the wood then do the research to source the wood. Asking on this site does help.

The other thing to keep in mind is to look out for wood on the side of the road so to speak. Picking this up increases the amount you have but it is a bit of a lucky dip.

@timber cost

Thanks Greg, but that tells me why it's n dollars / unit NOT why it's n * x dollars / unit where x can be anything from 5 to 10 or more compared to what people are paying elsewhere. Those costs are applicable *anywhere* in the world in some form or another.

I don't want to pay *nothing* I want to pay a price that is similar to what people in the US are paying - or even TWICE as much! - or a price whereby I can contribute all of the labour and other costs in producing a piece of furniture and that price be less than I can buy the same imported piece up at the local furniture shop - I don't care how low the wages are in Indonesia or wherever if I do all the post timber production work there should be a substantial saving - I am not finding that at all. But 5 times and 10 times the price can't be justified in my opinion.

Let's look at your $1500/m3 estimate for "cheap logs" by the conversion by this method https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...calculator.xls

the 2 x 4 x 8 Premium Kiln Dried Whitewood Stud would cost $18! (their price $2.48)

(I have converted that to 50 x 100 x 2400)

come on some thing's wrong somewhere (ok maybe my calculations - check me).

7 times the price? why?????

The worst part is that according to many US woodworking forums HD is EXPENSIVE - good lord!

God save me: $18 /2.4 = $7.50/m for a lousy bit of wood? what's it made of GOLD???

Somebody tell me my calcs are wrong because I can't believe it myself at this stage.

BTW I have always had the theory that %10 profit margin is the ideal - but my accountant insists that 30% is what the recommend - wish I could get that on my investments...

10% net.
30% gross and that is low
Greg

If you want really cheap timber, buy yourself a chainsaw, build yourself a mill for it, get yourself some logs out in the bush (legally), spend a few weeks/months/years milling them up. Build yourself a shed to store it for 3 or 5 or 10 years while it dries out. When you get to use your new stash you will have 4 to 5 cube of timber out of the 10 cube of logs that you milled. This is what I did, and now I have a good supply of quality timber for myself to use as I please.
Or if you dont have the time or energy, buy the timber off someone else who has done all the hard work, but expect to pay them for their trouble.

Respectfully submitted

Originally Posted by Ironwood

I think you can find plenty of better sources for timber than Bunnings.

I understand what you are saying but my point was that these are the only locations available to a large number of people. Specialty timber outlets (special in that they mainly deal with timber not (necessarily) specialty products) are (relatively) rare and don't like to deal with hobbyists.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

I wouldnt even think to look in a Hardware store for timber if I was building a piece of furniture. If you want quality timber you do have to pay the price.

But what price? I can't see the point in buying $1000 worth of timber to build a $750 piece of furniture. I mean I like the hobby but not that much.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Some options for cheaper timber are-
Keep an eye out in the "for sale" section on this forum. Check the classified ads in your local newspaper, or trader magazine. In my area there are occasional bargains to be had if you keep an eye out.
Demolition yards have second hand timber, this could be an option for you.
I have got good timber from the tip before, but that is getting harder to do these days.

Thanks, and I don't disagree with you, but I have gone down all these avenues ad infinitum, the problem is, and it's not just related to wood, but if people see Bunnings getting n dollars for wood then they figure they should be able to get n/2 (say) for what is really just a bit of rubbish that they would normally chuck out - and once something becomes fashionable, like recycling, - watch out! I recently went to my local recycled Timber Building Centre and they wanted more for some reclaimed building material than what you could buy it for NEW at Bunnings. I remember I was wearing a suit that day and came away covered in dust (most of it of the bovine kind).

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Tools to break down, dimension, and dress timber, such as a table saw, bandsaw, thicknesser and jointer, are definetely an asset. But people do seem to manage without a full workshop at their disposal .

yes, I have the former two but not the latter as they are relatively expensive and not strictly necessary. I have absolutely no problem paying more for DAR, just not the earth.

OTOH if I could save ~$500 by buying undressed timber then I could buy a planer/thicknesser and end up in the same position but, happily, with a new toy ). If I could save $1000 then I could have a jointer too, and so on. Alas, I think I would need to go into business to save that much...

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Are there any woodworking clubs in your area ?

Alas no, but for interest sakes why do you ask?

Originally Posted by Ironwood

If you want really cheap timber, buy yourself a chainsaw, build yourself a mill for it, get yourself some logs out in the bush (legally), spend a few weeks/months/years milling them up. Build yourself a shed to store it for 3 or 5 or 10 years while it dries out. When you get to use your new stash you will have 4 to 5 cube of timber out of the 10 cube of logs that you milled. This is what I did, and now I have a good supply of quality timber for myself to use as I please.

I have no problem doing that as I am in the bush (at least in a rural area) and I have an acre of ground, but:

a) I probably don't have that much time left
b) I need the timber NOW
c) The council won't let me

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Or if you dont have the time or energy, buy the timber off someone else who has done all the hard work, but expect to pay them for their trouble.Respectfully submitted

I don't mind paying them, I just object to being robbed.

We have ALL done hard work in out time - I have worked hard enough to be able retire early, we were able to sell our product all around the world including the US and you DON'T do that unless the product is reasonably priced - there IS NO WAY that Americans would pay the prices being charged here for timber.

Respectfully replied

In my opinion things are too cheap too affordable in our society. It is why people have become spoilt and wasteful. How do they get so much lumber to make a bench for $15 I don't know. Then again it is the USA we are talking about here. They want to pay nothing for everything and they usually get their way.

Don't worry Bunnings is trying very hard to screw their suppliers so they can give YOU the lowest prices, but if it is still not good enough for you then I don't know what else can be done.

Originally Posted by Greg Ward

10% net.
30% gross and that is low
Greg

You are paying 66% tax??? THAT would explain a lot.

But really, even if that was the reason *Australian* timber is expensive it does not explain why imported timber is expensive unless there are tariffs involved - but we are supposed to be playing on a level playing field now aren't we?

Originally Posted by Wongo

In my opinion things are too cheap too affordable in our society.

Strange, I haven't noticed that myself.

I am happy that you are doing so well that things appear cheap, I wish I could say the same.

Originally Posted by Wongo

It is why people have become spoilt and wasteful.

Not I! I recycle every thing I can. Can't afford not too.

I blame the rise of the double income myself - it makes a huge difference, especially for housing prices, but the kids suffer.

Originally Posted by Wongo

How do they get so much lumber to make a bench for $15 I don't know.

Well I don't either really, which is why I asked the person to justify it, they haven't replied, and you can bet if they did they would say something like "Oh and I had some scrap lying about". However the prices that HD are advertising are substantially lower than ours.

Originally Posted by Wongo

Then again it is the USA we are talking about here. They want to pay nothing for everything and they usually get their way.

Well it's all relative really - how do you know how much things *should* cost?

Originally Posted by Wongo

Don't worry Bunnings is trying very hard to screw their suppliers so they can give YOU the lowest prices, but if it is still no good enough for you then I don't know what else can be done.

I strongly disbelieve that they do give me the lowest price, they may well screw their suppliers, but I doubt very sincerely that they pass much of that on to their customers.