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  1. #1
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    Default 1/8" bead????????????????????????????????????

    I need to make a 1/8"(3mm) bead in a 3/4"(19mm) material, I don't own a 1/8" bead moulding plane so I plowed a groove 1/4" from the end and 1/8" deep then I used a no.8 round moulding plane the smallest I got but I can't get in deep enough to make a nice round. Here is where my dilemna is the plans show 1/8" bead but the sample finished picture shows two grooves and the bead is a perfect semi cirlce which looks so much better than the bead style. So how in the friggin world did he do it, if I had a moulding plane small enough to get in there then maybe I could pul it off. The sample pic isn't the same as the plans show. Is there anyway to get to create this look.

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Someone will know better than I do but my first thought is scratch-stock.
    Cheers,
    Jim

  4. #3
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    Yes I thought about that but there's way too much material to remove and I think because I'm using western red ceder I will get alot of tear out.

  5. #4
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    Until you said WRC, I was going to say 'scratch stock, for sure!', but I wouldn't be quite so confident if it's softwood. It may work well if it's a clean piece & the grain isn't 'furry', & it may not, but I'd be willing to give it a go, since it takes very little effort to make the required tool. And you may be surprised how easy it is to make a profile with a scratch stock, so I wouldn't be put off by having a few metres to prepare (unless you're talking a couple of hundred metres, in which case you are justified in going out & buying the appropriate bit for your router!).

    If I understood your description of the profile you're trying to copy, it sounds a bit like what I would get by running a 1/8th quirked-bead cutter along each adjacent edge, alternately, except the rounded section would be more than a semicircle, it would be close to 3/4 of a full circle.

    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #5
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    I'm not sure what a 1/8th quirked-bead cutter looks like I tried to google it but nothing came up literally a blank page. I'm stumped on this one I just dont how he did it but I went on ebay and purchased a 1/8 beading moulding plane I can't tell you how many times I actually needed one but opted out of implementing it in my work due to not having one. This is my first time working with western red ceder so I'm not quite sure what to expect but just looking at the open grain I figured using a scratch stock would just result in tear out. The pics looked ok with this moulding plane I got but you never know what your getting till you actually get it.

    Oh well for now this project is going on the back burner till that plane arrives, one day I will get myself a complete set of moulding planes and free myself from these specialty tools. OMG I just figure out how to do it, unbelievable I am it was staring at me all along. The problem is I was referring to the plan rather than staring at the pic. In the plan he refers to using a normal 1/8"bead what to me looks like 1/4" from the edge but in the pic the bead is in the middle of the edge of the timber so that means rabetting 1/4" from both ends and then just rounding off the middle!

  7. #6
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    Side bead planes are for the edge . A lot of Edwardian woodwork and at other times had a bead inboard from the edge , Is that what you are explaining ? A drawing would help us understand.
    They were done as One or two side by side and upwards from there. and a moulding plane existed for doing it. and people converted side beads to do it . without the plane and it being a soft wood it could be done by more of an impressing tool than a cutting tool and sanding the rest, maybe .

  8. #7
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    That's what I just bought but it isn't what I'm referring too. Now here we have a picture of what I just did and thought it was going to work but after studying his picture closer I failed again because in his 3/4" material the bead isn't in the middle which I thought it was it actually is 1/4" from the edge so this guy was so gracious enough to mislead his audience by suggesting in his drawing which clearly shows that only a 1/8" side bead plane can be used thank you for the correction Auscab BUT!!!! he some how decided to switch to f*** knows what and added a small rabbet on the other side of the bead and rounded the rest off. The semi circle atleast that's what appears to be or it could be as Ian suggest a 3/4 circle looks way to perfect to have been done with a moulding plane so maybe this guy used a bit in his router regardless I need to figure out exactly how I'm going to conquer this.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #8
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    Default Beads, quirks & all that..

    OK Section1, let's get our terminology straightened out, first.

    This is a quirked bead cutter, 1/8th" radius, so cuts a bead of 1/4" diameter: Quirked bead cutter.jpg

    This is a scratchstock which does the same job: QB scratchstock.jpg

    And this is the profile they cut: QB.jpg

    After your later posts, I think you are talking about a bead in the centre of the piece, like this? Bead centred.jpg

    For that, you rush out & buy a beading cutter, or simply make a simple cutter with your required bead diameter & two quirk cutters either side (this took me less than a minute to make, just now), then position it appropriately in your scratchstock: Bead centered S_S.jpg

    I've cut the piece in section so you can clearly see the profiles:

    Bead profiles.jpg

    On the top right corner is the quirked bead, run on two corners to give the 3/4 circle I was talking about. Underneath is the single bead run up the centre. Neither is perfect, as you can see, I did these in a big hurry just for demonstration purposes, but with a bit of care, you can make them just as perfect as a router can with your scratchstock, in most woods (though I won't take bets with any softwood, sometimes they're ok, sometimes not!). And it takes far less time than you may think.

    As Rob says, a lot of old makers used beads in various combinations and it can point to the era - in the late 1700s, multiple beads were often used to decorate edges of carcase pieces, for e.g.

    And just a plug for old-fashioned methods. The bead on this chair back is done with a scratchstock:

    Chair kangaroo rail red.jpg
    - try figuring out any machine method for doing that....

    Cheers,
    IW

  10. #9
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    Thanks Ian so the scratch stock is the answer here well I guess I'm just going to have to make one I've never made one
    before, but his bead wasn't centered I know if had a smaller enough hollow I could round it off with that without risking any tear out, but having said that I still wouldn't be able to create a 3/4 circle so maybe this guy used that quirk end bit ran it across one direction then flipped it over and ran it across another which ultimately created that 3/4 turn..

  11. #10
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    I think of a centre bead more as reeding.

    The best tool for this would be a 1/8 single reed molding plane. You run it up against a battern.
    I don't own one (I'd like to ).
    The FIL has some reeding planes, but his 1/8 is a double reed. The single reeds do exist though.

    Reeding.jpg

  12. #11
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    hmm nice

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbthumper View Post
    ...I think of a centre bead more as reeding....
    I guess I consider a single bead is just a bead, TT, and 'reeding' as consisting of multiple beads as the term comes from the decoration applied to stone & wood columns to make them look like a bundle of reeds, but that's just semantics - as long as we know what we are talking about.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbthumper View Post
    ....The best tool for this would be a 1/8 single reed molding plane. You run it up against a battern.....
    Perhaps, depending on the wood you wish to mould, but you can handle much more cranky grain with the humble scratchstock than any plane will manage. A plane is definitely my choice for long runs of mouldings like matching architraves & skirting boards, for e.g., but for occasional use on short runs scratchstocks are virtually cost-free and I can make one in a few minutes (though I admit it took me a maybe couple of hours to make my first SS & get the hang of it). For a small job, I could probably have it finished before you get your plane sharpened up & working, & figure out how to clamp a guide batten on that narrow strip.

    I started a collection of moulding planes many years ago, when they were everywhere & cheap. But you need a specific one for every different profile, & pretty soon you have a pile of the darn things cluttering the place, but never the profile you actually need. I reckon most weekend wood-worriers would be better off with one of these, to make beads & reeds for furniture.

    Just an opinion....
    Cheers,
    IW

  14. #13
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    A method I've seen used for short runs of corner bead is to use a screw screwed into a block of wood. This was with old type screws of course but I imagine a bugle head with a hacksaw cut in it would do the same, probably better shape-wise. The shank of the screw acts as a depth stop.
    Never done it myself so of course it looked easy.
    Cheers,
    Jim

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbur View Post
    A method I've seen used for short runs of corner bead is to use a screw screwed into a block of wood. This was with old type screws of course but I imagine a bugle head with a hacksaw cut in it would do the same, probably better shape-wise.
    That is a good one . Makes an impression rather than scratching it's way along. I was going to mention it myself but I started thinking too much on how it could be done, tried to describe it, as in, how to produce an internal bead with a screw from both sides at the same time . gave up and deleted it.

    Rob

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    I guess I consider a single bead is just a bead, TT, and 'reeding' as consisting of multiple beads as the term comes from the decoration applied to stone & wood columns to make them look like a bundle of reeds, but that's just semantics - as long as we know what we are talking about.....



    Perhaps, depending on the wood you wish to mould, but you can handle much more cranky grain with the humble scratchstock than any plane will manage. A plane is definitely my choice for long runs of mouldings like matching architraves & skirting boards, for e.g., but for occasional use on short runs scratchstocks are virtually cost-free and I can make one in a few minutes (though I admit it took me a maybe couple of hours to make my first SS & get the hang of it). For a small job, I could probably have it finished before you get your plane sharpened up & working, & figure out how to clamp a guide batten on that narrow strip.

    I started a collection of moulding planes many years ago, when they were everywhere & cheap. But you need a specific one for every different profile, & pretty soon you have a pile of the darn things cluttering the place, but never the profile you actually need. I reckon most weekend wood-worriers would be better off with one of these, to make beads & reeds for furniture.

    Just an opinion....
    Cheers,
    I agree with all you've said.

    The issue here is WRC. I've never tried to scratch the stuff, but I've had problems using my 66 even on Red Cedar. It can get quite fluffy. WRC is softer still. A single reed plane would be crisper.
    Having said that, I don't have any reed planes (yet), and I'm not sure how I would approach the result that the OP wants to achieve. I would try my 66 first.

    As for molding planes, I want one of every type, freshly sharpened and ready to go

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